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Old 10-09-2009, 09:48 PM   #151
tpivette
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you joined here because you saw the 1/8th mile numbers and a Focus badge and presumed we're all wrong. In fact, before you even joined, you presumed that all Focuses are slow and that any V8 thirdgen could beat them
the focus badge has nothing to do with it. what i saw was a 10.6 and "i spanked a V8". having owned a slower version of the supposed 305 the OP beat, i knew a 10.6 would not be able to continuously pull on one like shown in the video (assuming the L03 wasnt clapped out). as ive said numerous times, i have no hate for focuses. but after reading a few pages and seeing the OP first claiming defeat against a high 15 sec V8, then seemingly getting jacked up on the support of the members here and further claiming to beat another V8 that should be more than a second faster in the 1/4 mile, i felt i had to share my knowledge of GM performance in a straight line


Quote:
However, after all of that, you commented that a thirdgen will outrun a Focus in autocross because it was "built for handling." Thirdgens were definitely great handling cars... in 1982. You opened a can of worms on yourself by 1: showing you are still in fact lacking knowledge of these cars, and 2: trying to quote blanket knowledge of thirdgens that is nearly 30 years old. You said you'd put money down that a stock thirdgen would outrun a stock Focus in autocross. What? I will borrow someone's stock Focus and take that bet if you really want to make that happen.
to be honest, i dont have much knowledge about autocrossing. i didnt know that skidpad #s were useless when comparing the autocross capabilities of two cars. because of this, i suppose i was incorrect in the capabilities of the focus in an autocross event. i was simply quoting advertised skidpad #s between the fourthgen fbodies, the C5 Z06, and the focus. i dont believe the thirdgen was ever brought up in the autocross discussion because the topic had then changed to the OP beating a LT1 car at that time and had switched to fourthgens

thirdgens were good handling cars, even today, and posted skidpad #s in the low 0.90s. put one on a racetrack, with good condition suspension equipment, the thirdgen will perform well. take a look at the suspension differences between the fox body mustang, and a thirdgen IROC, and its obvious the fbody suspension was designed for handling and not straight line performance. again, ill admit i didnt know there was such a difference between racetrack handling and autocross handling

Also, there was no "can of worms" that was opened. i was never adamant about the autocross statement, and i didnt have 15 members jumping down my throat about it. In fact, it was such a quick and small part of the thread that no one else seemed to care... except that you apparently saw a opportunity to try discredit everything i have said by using one or two posts i made in an unrelated topic

Quote:
If you feel you need to educate people, you should really learn what you're teaching first. No offense or anything; it's not like I know you personally. But I'm calling it like I see it.
when it comes to GM performance in a straight line, and performance enhancing modifications to GM engines, my knowledge is vast. ive basically lived at the dragstrip for the last 10 years and have owned and modded more than a dozen GM performance cars. while no one knows everything, i feel that i have more than enough knowledge of the subject to educate the uninformed. especially when mid 15 sec focus owners say things like "LT1s are dogs"

ill admit, i dont have much information when it comes to handling as im not particularly interested in that aspect of a vehicles performance, and can only quote skidpad #s between two cars. However, i dont even know why autocrossing and or handling was even brought up in this thread when it was obvious the topic was dragstrip performance. Besides, trying to insinuate that ALL of my knowledge is bogus cause there were a few posts (less than a page out of 13) about handling that i contributed to that i was sorta incorrect about (fbody and Z06 skidpad #s vs focus skidpad #s that i posted were, in fact, correct... the GM cars were higher) is kinda lame dont you think? If you noticed, i never said a fbody would most definately beat a focus in an autocross event. you are wrong, but actually said i would be willing to bet. kinda different, and certainly not trying to "educate" anyone on THAT subject, in fact i just let the autocross thing drop. however, the dragstrip performance i argued relentlessly due to my solid knowledge on THAT subject. Nice try to "pwn" me though

Whew! i think im done

Last edited by tpivette; 10-09-2009 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:55 PM   #152
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Unless you all get something to compete with personal jetpacks, we're all gonna be old timers on the drag circuit soon.

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Old 10-09-2009, 11:22 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by tpivette View Post
well, i have nothing else of value to add to the general tech or discussion forums cause i dont own a focus

funny how you took me out of context and didnt quote the rest of my statement, as it would have made my intention and reason for being here alot clearer

the whole point of my posting was to shed some insight on GM performance. due to the fact that a mid-low 16 sec focus said that he beat a low 14 sec LT1, and 95% of the members on this site either believed him or agreed that it could happen consistantly, i felt i had to educate the members here who apparantly are lacking in knowledge of GM cars
They could read your post right above mine to see what you were talking about. Yes GM does make some great cars and fast ones at that. And saying that 95% of the members on here believe that it could happen consistently you are prolly somewhat right. But I look at that video and see that the firebird did not really try. Yes I made a comment about nice run, but I have since gone back an looked at the video and that is what it looks like to me. Or it was a V6 in a real heavy car.
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:31 PM   #154
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well, this has gone on just about long enough. i for one am willing to just let it drop. after 13 pages, im getting tired of going back and forth. we all have our points, theories, and experiences

if anyone races at Cecil County Dragway in Rising Sun, Maryland... keep an eye out for a red 96' Corvette. dont hesitate to walk on over and say hi

BTW, that jet pack thing was crazy!!!
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Old 10-09-2009, 11:46 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpivette View Post
the focus badge has nothing to do with it. what i saw was a 10.6 and "i spanked a V8". having owned a slower version of the supposed 305 the OP beat, i knew a 10.6 would not be able to continuously pull on one like shown in the video (assuming the L03 wasnt clapped out). as ive said numerous times, i have no hate for focuses...
See, here's my problem with all of this: I was on your side for a bit when you were the only f-body member actually talking some sense and not trying to be smart about it. Technical discussion I can relate with. But the fact is, you already made the assumption that you knew Focuses before you even saw this thread... it had nothing to do with the 1/8th mile times when you wrote this:

Quote:
what does this supposed V8 slaying Focus run? theyre not fast cars by any means... any non-V6 thirdgen would beat one stock vs stock
http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/po...708-post9.html

As an off-topic tangent, I should remind you that there is such a thing as a 4-cylinder thirdgen, which is technically a non-v6 (and which isn't beating anything... lol).

That annoyed me, after reading some respectably level-headed comments from you here. I was beginning to question your intent. The comment about handling made me realize you just don't know Focuses at all. Perhaps I started making assumptions of my own at this point, cause it all started looking like just a lot of talk to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpivette View Post
...but after reading a few pages and seeing the OP first claiming defeat against a high 15 sec V8, then seemingly getting jacked up on the support of the members here and further claiming to beat another V8 that should be more than a second faster in the 1/4 mile, i felt i had to share my knowledge of GM performance in a straight line...
Understandable, but you didn't bother to check what the car should be running compared to the OP's time, and continued to make broad assumptions that any V8 thirdgen is faster. We sorted that out already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpivette View Post
...to be honest, i dont have much knowledge about autocrossing. i didnt know that skidpad #s were useless when comparing the autocross capabilities of two cars. because of this, i suppose i was incorrect in the capabilities of the focus in an autocross event. i was simply quoting advertised skidpad #s between the fourthgen fbodies, the C5 Z06, and the focus...
This is another reason I started assuming you're blowing smoke, because I knew skidpad numbers don't translate to autocross times, and yet that was your response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpivette View Post
...thirdgens were good handling cars, even today, and posted skidpad #s in the low 0.90s. put one on a racetrack, with good condition suspension equipment, the thirdgen will perform well. take a look at the suspension differences between the fox body mustang, and a thirdgen IROC, and its obvious the fbody suspension was designed for handling and not straight line performance...
I know they handle well, believe me. But if you want to take this whole comparison issue to the level of road coarses, a Focus given similar HP-to-weight as any F-body will surprise you quite a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpivette View Post
...when it comes to GM performance in a straight line, and performance enhancing modifications to GM engines, my knowledge is vast. ive basically lived at the dragstrip for the last 10 years and have owned and modded more than a dozen GM performance cars. while no one knows everything, i feel that i have more than enough knowledge of the subject to educate the uninformed. especially when mid 15 sec focus owners say things like "LT1s are dogs"...
I think it was pretty clear that the OP assumed LT1s are dogs based on his experience with his friend's car, that apparently wasn't running right. That is exactly what you did with the OP's car, that apparently wasn't running right. But again, we already sorted that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpivette View Post
...trying to insinuate that ALL of my knowledge is bogus cause there were a few posts (less than a page out of 13) about handling that i contributed to that i was sorta incorrect about (fbody and Z06 skidpad #s vs focus skidpad #s that i posted were, in fact, correct... the GM cars were higher) is kinda lame dont you think? If you noticed, i never said a fbody would most definately beat a focus in an autocross event. you are wrong, but actually said i would be willing to bet...
To sum up, my above comments about your post on TGO, lack of knowledge about the Focus ST's average performance, and use of skidpad numbers in response to autox performance made me question you. I don't know you so that's what I ascertained.

As for the "willing to bet" part, I get the feeling you don't understand what it means when you post those words in writing. It means you'd put your money down that the Focus will lose. I responded appropriately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpivette View Post
...however, the dragstrip performance i argued relentlessly due to my solid knowledge on THAT subject. Nice try to "pwn" me though ...
And again, I was beginning to see some light out of your lengthy, well-written reply, just to see you finish it off with a thinly-veiled attempt at an e-bitch slap.
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Old 10-10-2009, 01:18 AM   #156
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well, i guess this will just refuse to die. so....

Quote:
But the fact is, you already made the assumption that you knew Focuses before you even saw this thread... it had nothing to do with the 1/8th mile times when you wrote this:
while i had no hardcore, researched evidence i assumed focuses would be, at best, a high 15 sec car when driven well... which would match a L03 thirdgen. no stock 4cyl economy car outside the high performance models (SS Cobalts, STR4s, SI Civics, etc) are usually better than mid 15s. all my years at the dragstrip have shown me this. id say it was pretty safe to assume at best the focus was in that range. You cant fault me for that

while i would believe a near stock or even bone stock focus could potentially beat a base V8 thirdgen in the 1/4 (alot of cars can nowadays), i couldnt believe one could beat a L03 thirdgen in the 1/8 by as much as the one in the video. when i made the "V8 slaying focus" remark, it was at the fact that the CAI-only focus owner was claiming to put the smack down on LT1s (which was stated by the OP in the first post of the www.thirdgen.org thread). even without proof of a 15 sec stock focus, did i really need any additional information to assume a stock LT1 fbody should lose to one? i dont think so

Quote:
As an off-topic tangent, I should remind you that there is such a thing as a 4-cylinder thirdgen, which is technically a non-v6 (and which isn't beating anything... lol).
yes, im well aware of the rare 4cyl thirdgen. i actually tried, unsucessfully, to try and purchase one for about a year and a half. i was interested in turboing one just for kicks. but, appareantly it is impossible to find one that hasnt been parted out, swapped to a V8, or just rotted beyond saving, that i gave up. Ive never actually seen one, and no one really thinks of those cars when talking thirdgens, so i never thought to even mention it when i said "any non-V6 thirdgen would beat one stock vs stock". Again, you cant fault me for not being specific about a thirdgen that practically doesnt exist anymore

Quote:
That annoyed me, after reading some respectably level-headed comments from you here. I was beginning to question your intent. The comment about handling made me realize you just don't know Focuses at all. Perhaps I started making assumptions of my own at this point, cause it all started looking like just a lot of talk to me
My intent has never changed. there were a few members on here that thought any thirdgen V8, or even a LT1 fourthgen, could be beaten by a near stock focus. Since dragstrip knowledge is my cup-of-tea, especially with GMs, i signed up to shed some light on that subject

the whole autocross thing... again. heres my train of thought when i made that comment: i always though a skidpad test was when a vehicle turned in a tight circle and G forces were measured right up to the point of lost traction. figuring the "tight circle" test, i thought that this closely mirrored the turns of an autocross event. also knowing that a FWD platform doesnt perform as well on a racetrack as RWD, and given the handling designs of a fourthgen fbody and especially Corvettes, they would have an advantage over a focus on an autocross course

why would a single, misassumed comment on autocross handling make you assume that ALL of my knowledge was bogus? if you had your doubts, alls you had to do was a little research on the various LT1 boards (www.ls1tech.com has a LTx specific board for example) that would confim everything i have said about that particular platforms performance

Quote:
Understandable, but you didn't bother to check what the car should be running compared to the OP's time, and continued to make broad assumptions that any V8 thirdgen is faster. We sorted that out already
i never assumed that the OP was the end all, be all performance when it came to focuses. i already stated at the top of the post what i originally thought about non-SVT focus capabilities. what i do know is that a manual trans FWD car is very hard to launch effectively, while an auto trans RWD car (which is what the majority of L03 thirdgens are) is not. also, 4 cylinders are normally designed for top end performance... just the opposite of what a L03 thirdgen would have. That information would lead most to believe the car with more low end, an auto trans, and RWD platform would have a serious advantage over a FWD, high powerband car in the 1/8 mile. the L03 thirdgen would put distance on the focus in the first 1/8, and afterwards, the topend of the focus would allow it to catch up by the finish of the 1/4. again, you cant fault me for assuming that, as most people would

Quote:
This is another reason I started assuming you're blowing smoke, because I knew skidpad numbers don't translate to autocross times, and yet that was your response.
so, again, you assumed i was BSing about everything in this entire thread due to a simple misunderstanding about the differences between autocross and racetrack handling?

Quote:
I think it was pretty clear that the OP assumed LT1s are dogs based on his experience with his friend's car, that apparently wasn't running right. That is exactly what you did with the OP's car, that apparently wasn't running right. But again, we already sorted that out.
the OP never admitted that his friends LT1 wasnt running right. I doubt he even thinks there could be a problem with it. I dont believe the OP thought his focus wasnt running right that night at the track, as i doubt he wouldve taken it down if he did. Regardless if the OPs car was running well that night or not, theres simply no way its strong enough to take out a good running LT1 fbody. all the OPs responses about LT1s in this thread seem to convey the contrary

Quote:
And again, I was beginning to see some light out of your lengthy, well-written reply, just to see you finish it off with a thinly-veiled attempt at an e-bitch slap.
i said that at the end of my response because thats the way you came off in your other post. It seemed as though you were trying to call me out based on the one incorrect statement i made. you were beating the one comment i made about autocrossing to death as if that wouldve discredited everything else ive ever posted. again, and again, and again with the autocross thing... you repeated it like if you brought it up enough times it would ban all the other members here against me. Ah - ha! he was wrong about autocrossing... that means hes not only a focus hating liar, but must not know anything about GM performance either!

So where do we go from here?
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Old 10-10-2009, 01:35 AM   #157
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You're a pretty defensive guy, huh? Let me repeat myself for you:

"To sum up, my above comments about your post on TGO, lack of knowledge about the Focus ST's average performance, and use of skidpad numbers in response to autox performance made me question you. I don't know you so that's what I ascertained."

NOT just the autocrossing comment. Makes sense? I get it, you know about f-bodies.

I know exactly what thirdgens can and can't do. I've been on TGO nearly as long as you have and even moderated there for a few years. I know exactly what Focuses can and can't do, too; but you seem to be lacking that part of the equation. That's all I'm trying to say here.
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Old 10-10-2009, 02:04 AM   #158
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sounds good

i explained my thirdgen.org post, my assumption about focus straight line performance wasnt that far off, and i know next to nothing about autocrossing

for the record, my knowledge is more than just fbodies. im into all makes of GM straight line performance (Corvettes are my favorite)
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Old 10-10-2009, 07:11 AM   #159
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But historically the Vette is a corner carver not an straight line car.
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Old 10-10-2009, 12:24 PM   #160
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But historically the Vette is a corner carver not an straight line car.
That is soooo true good thing that guy knows his GM's!
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