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View Poll Results: What is expected of a driver in this situation?
I should have matched braking with the Miata to maintain position regardless of risks. 0 0%
I should have come to a stop after eclipsing the other cars, until they resumed position. 0 0%
What I did was correct within the reasonable expectations of this situation. 14 87.50%
Other? (please post with comment) 0 0%
No Opinion - Just Lurking...... ;) 2 12.50%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-22-2009, 10:12 PM   #1
tb1999
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"pass under yellow" - You Make The Call!

OK, I'm looking for some opinions from experienced racers, and event officials here.

Have a look at this video.

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


At around the 2:30 time stamp there is an accident just ahead of a sharp right hand turn at the glen.

After slowing up we are coming around the turn with me on the inside. The outside of the turn is bottled up with some debris, and when the cars on my left lock up the brakes hard, I eclipse them on the inside.

Keep in mind, there is another miata somewhere behind me that I just passed in the previous turn. I was not quite ready to slam on the brakes, possibly collecting him with my rear bumper.

The BMW 2002ti jumps right back ahead of me, but the Miata does not seem to want his place back, so I press on regardless.

As a new racer, this situation is a bit fuzzy to me. While the event organizers and officials did not black flag me, or raise this incident for discussion at impound, a youtuber seems to think I'm clearly guilty of executing a "pass under yellow".

Please review the video, vote, and comment.........


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Last edited by tb1999; 09-28-2009 at 07:29 AM. Reason: changed link to new video
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:54 PM   #2
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it happened so fast I think you did what you good do without causing another werck.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:15 PM   #3
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fun video
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:45 PM   #4
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if the racing is similar to that of nascar... you can still pass until the yellow is thrown... i didn't see any caution flags lights etc to say to slow down..... but it may be different.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:14 AM   #5
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Although not an expert I voted #3. You came back very well after missing that gear, congrats on the race. Well done.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leh0825 View Post
if the racing is similar to that of nascar... you can still pass until the yellow is thrown... i didn't see any caution flags lights etc to say to slow down..... but it may be different.
the only flag being displayed at the time was a waving yellow way off to the left, at the far outside of the track at the entrance to this turn

As I crested the top of this straight and approaching this turn while racing with several cars ahead of me, I was looking ahead and to the right where I was headed, putting this active flag station at the fringes of my perhiperal vision to the left. The wrecked cars were all small low profile spec racer fords, which are obscured by the guardrail on the right side of the track. I can't see what the slowdown is until I near the apex of that corner and everything on the other side of the guardrail comes into view. The Mazda on my left has a better view down the track than I do here.

Also note that the previous flag station at the beginning of this straight displayed no flag activity when it was in view of me and my camera. (you might have to visit youtube to see my on screen notes.......)

One difference is that NASCAR typically only uses "full course" yellows.

SCCA and other club racing "sprint" events <30 laps often just throw a yellow at the site of the incident, and the "yellow" status is only in effect until you attain sight of the next flag station that is no longer displaying a yellow.

A "double yellow" which can be seen on some of the footage shortly following this incident will be displayed at all stations and removed simultanously, which is somewhat equivalent to a NASCAR full course yellow.
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Old 09-23-2009, 12:41 AM   #7
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you and i were looking in the same direction then because i didn't see it at all and camera is a less view too. but what is the yellow mean in hte scca rules? can you not gain a position in that state of a yellow? if the course officials didn't black flag you, penalize you, then you should be ok.....
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:09 AM   #8
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...from the 2009 SCCA rule book

Quote:
Originally Posted by leh0825 View Post
you and i were looking in the same direction then because i didn't see it at all and camera is a less view too. but what is the yellow mean in hte scca rules? can you not gain a position in that state of a yellow? if the course officials didn't black flag you, penalize you, then you should be ok.....

YELLOW FLAG (Solid Yellow)

STANDING YELLOW -- Take care, Danger, Slow Down, NO PASSING
FROM THE FLAG until past emergency area.

WAVED -- Great Danger, Slow Down, be prepared to stop -- NO
PASSING FROM THE FLAG until past emergency area.


DOUBLE YELLOW, DISPLAYED AT ALL STATIONS — Indicates the
entire course is under a yellow condition. SLOW DOWN, NO PASSING.
This flag condition may be used with or without a Pace (Safety) Car,
including pace lap(s). Cars may carefully pass emergency vehicles. Cars
may also pass other cars that are disabled or otherwise cannot keep the
pace as signified by a raised arm on the part of the driver of the off-pace
car (see Section 6.3.2.).
NOTE: A driver may encounter several flags before reaching the emergency
area. The requirements are still the same “SLOW DOWN, NO
PASSING.”
So, as I mentioned, as we cleared the incident, I kind of coasted, inviting the 2002 & the Miata to recover thier slots, one did, the other did not. I'm not going to wait forever!
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213 whp / 160 wtq D23 NA with stock intake and TB.

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I like the same qualities in women and pistons; Lightweight, fast, and with the smallest skirts possible...
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:17 AM   #9
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no by that time you could have been behind everyone... well like we both have said.. they wouldve flagged you soon or even deducted points, slots when you were in hte garage... or atleast warned you..... so i guess you were ok this time
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Old 09-23-2009, 01:29 AM   #10
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thanks to all for the support here.

From my point of view, I thought it was all very reasonable.

And while this next point is hearsay, the miata driver brought this incident up for a half-sentence with me in the pits, and immediately recognized, "yeah, some of us were getting on the binders hard when you passed me."
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213 whp / 160 wtq D23 NA with stock intake and TB.

Inventor of "The $0 Thunder Throttle" & "Focuzdax-7" brake swap.
I like the same qualities in women and pistons; Lightweight, fast, and with the smallest skirts possible...

Last edited by tb1999; 09-23-2009 at 01:30 AM. Reason: missed a quote mark!
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