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Old 04-26-2009, 04:39 PM   #1
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can a 180 degree thermostat Decrease performance?

i got a 180 degree thermostat to run it a little cooler, it gives me slightly better throttle response because its running a little richer, but can this decrease performance?


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Old 04-26-2009, 05:16 PM   #2
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where did you get the idea that a thermostat causes it to run richer?

cooler temps can improve your knock threshold but you cant take advantage of this unless you have a custom tune. without a tune the 180 doesnt really do anything. also your fans still wont turn on until the same temps as when you had the 192 so you really arent going to run any cooler.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:24 PM   #3
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if you datalog it, it will show you, that your running richer, because the cooler your car is the more fuel it uses, this shown during warm up since it wont reach the 220 degrees its going to be running a little richer, till it gets up to the 120, i go to school for this and we used a scanner to look at everything, this shows,
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:27 PM   #4
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cold start enrichment in open loop is turned off after you hit 158 degrees. You shouldnt be hammering on the car until then anyway.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:35 PM   #5
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^^^^^I'm not sure I buy that logic. First off, the fans aren't running most of the time when you're moving (unless the AC is on).

So.....the 180degree thermostat is indeed opening sooner/wider, attempting to keep the coolant at 180 degrees. This is slightly below what the computer is expecting (head temperature sensor), so it's quite possible the computer may richen the mixture slightly to compensate (it thinks the engine is not warmed up sufficiently).

What effect this might have on performance.....in theory you might get a little more power, at the cost of MPG. CEL issues......maybe. And it is possible the computer may eventually "learn" the new/lower coolant temperature, and adjust to compensate. Hard to say for sure....

And I'll say this.....anybody who thinks they know everything that goes on in that little black box under the dash......think again.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:44 PM   #6
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on the highway when the fans are off yes you might notice a bit cooler temps. but running at 65mph on the highway isnt where youre looking for performance now is it? At WOT you wont notice anything unless you have the fans turning on at lower temps.

once you hit 158 the computer doesnt change fueling based on ECT. I just ran through the entire ecu to double check.

There is also a time-based scalar to get you out of cold start fuel, on the stock ecu it is 10 seconds. This will override the ECT-based switching.
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Old 04-26-2009, 05:47 PM   #7
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also there is a table to tell the computer if the engine hasnt warmed up fast enough. If it goes outside this table it will throw a CEL, that is all.
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Old 04-26-2009, 06:15 PM   #8
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EDIT: my bad the fans are on at 220
the 180 thermostat is an advantage due to the fact that it opens up sooner than the stock *192* degrees so i like to think about it as the engine gets cooled down 40 degrees sooner every time you run it than the stock thermostat i know it may not be a major longevity factor for an engines lifetime but it has to help a little

but at idle without a tune to kick the fans on earlier no the thermostat isnt helpful in this case

every morning i start my car and wait for it to pass the white bar or reach the middle before i drive so i dont burn so much fuel running the car cold
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Old 04-26-2009, 06:20 PM   #9
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woah the stock is 220? i was under the impression it is 192.

Like I said I dont know how many times i have to say this, after 10 seconds there IS NOT ANY ENRICHMENT based on coolant temp, you are just wasting fuel by letting it sit there to warm up. 30 seconds is all you need to let it warm up enough and go into closed loop. Depending on the startup temp after 10-30 seconds it is in closed loop meaning 14.7:1! There doesnt appear to be any closed loop bias based on ECT.

I would post the tables if you guys still dont believe me but that would be a breach of my license agreement with SCT.
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:39 PM   #10
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"There doesnt appear to be any closed loop bias based on ECT."

Perhaps not on the Focus, but there is on other vehicles........this is a subject open to debate, and hard to prove one way or another. I'm certainly not a Focus ECU/emissions expert........but the warm-up period on my '06 takes longer than 30 seconds in cold weather (based on O2 voltage monitoring, among other things). Looks to me like closed loop takes a few minutes to kick in.
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