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Old 02-18-2009, 03:34 PM   #61
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So I was sitting in my machining class today and I had a great(I think) run thru my head.

What if I made a new plate, that is flat with no ducktail. For material I am thinking aluminum. It will be the same dimensions...
.109" thick and 2.485" diameter.


This was gonna be a secret but I am just making sure this would work. If I should have made a new thread then I am sorry. But this TB idea gave me the idea for mine. If you guys have any other things to make this better, let me know.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:48 PM   #62
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Would it hurt to try tho. It wouldn't cost me a dime. Just about 20 minutes on a lathe.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:35 PM   #63
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Quote:
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Would it hurt to try tho. It wouldn't cost me a dime. Just about 20 minutes on a lathe.
I don't know enough about expansion rates, maybe a brass plate would be more compatible with the plastic housing etc. Or what about a hard plastic throttle plate from similar plastic stock material of the same composition of the stock plate. Not sure what type of plastic the throttle plate is though, Nemesis has my throttle right now.

Can you read any of the material codes molded into the throttle plate, look for letters like ABS, PP, PS to ID the plastic type.

Maybe there's something on wiki for expansion rates of materials, or possibly illinipo has some ideas about this area of engineering.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:41 PM   #64
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Yea I was thinking about brass too. I will take a look and see if there is a code.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:11 PM   #65
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or possibly illinipo has some ideas about this area of engineering.
I do yay college.

this site has a decent list. you can find just about any material's value for alpha by google-ing...

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/li...ents-d_95.html

The wiki article is very dense. All you need to know is, strain = alpha*tempchange, where strain = lengthchange/originallength

For instance, if we take ABS plastic from 5C (give or take the avg temp in the country right now) up to 90C (about as hot as the TB will get) the strain will be (90-5)*99*10^-6, or about 8.4 millistrain (units of strain are unitless, but we call them units of strain). In engineering sense, this is a considerable bit of strain. However, in the real world, a 60mm bar would turn into a 60.5mm bar. For the machinists out there, that's an increase of about 20 thousandths. Enough to cause problems for a slip fit like a throttle plate.

So basically, yeah.


If you step back from all of this math, you will realize that the throttle body is closing in on the plate as it expands. So, instead of matching the expansion rates, what you really want for the plate is a material with a really low expansion rate. Polycarbonate would work well, and I believe that is actually what these things are made out of. It's a durable plastic that will take some heat before it deforms or melts.


edit, you will notice that while the FC and CFM and etc... tb's are made out of aluminum, they use a brass throttle plate, which has a lower coefficient of expansion than aluminum (22.2 for Al vs 18.7 for brass)
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:20 PM   #66
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I guess I will just make one out of carbon...

Turns out brass has a high expansion rate, so I will probably just leave it alone.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:52 AM   #67
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my brain hurts.

i played around with mine some more today...got it to run better with the IAC connected but it still pulls off throttle and revs randomly..like i'll pull up to a stop light out of gear (this isn't a new problem since the TB) and it'll be at idle and right before I stop it'll rev up to 2k and then slowly come back down...its really odd.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:41 AM   #68
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Mine does the opposite coming to a light out of gear, it falls on its face. It drops a little under 500 rpm, just about stalls. Then it comes back to life and idles normal.

Anyway....been thinking about the golf ball "dimple" theory. Whats the formula for dimple size and how many to use in a given area... if there is such a thing? And how would this idea work on a flat, angled object instead of a sphere? U know wher im going with this. Illinipo? ;)

Nevermind... I found the golf ball dimple site illinipo used to show separation, etc... Dimples only work on spheres. Tear drop shape is my goal.
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Old 02-19-2009, 10:12 AM   #69
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im only good with fluid mechanics fundamentals, when it comes to applications you might as well hire a monkey.
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Old 02-19-2009, 11:13 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warneej View Post
my brain hurts.

i played around with mine some more today...got it to run better with the IAC connected but it still pulls off throttle and revs randomly..like i'll pull up to a stop light out of gear (this isn't a new problem since the TB) and it'll be at idle and right before I stop it'll rev up to 2k and then slowly come back down...its really odd.
I had this problem too Evan, so I reverted back to the stock set up, I also popped a code for higher then expected rpms
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