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Old 02-15-2009, 12:40 AM   #41
Roland07
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Hey, TB.

I'm pretty curious about this mod. I'm in an 07 ZX3 with a DIY SRI, that being the only engine mod. I'm using a stock MAF tube, with the MAF sensor reversed to work with the DIY setup.

This looks like something I could handle, mechanically. Will I be getting any noticeable gains from this, with my setup? And later, if I finally pony up the cash for a K&N FIPK?

Give me the go ahead and I'll do this, and add some more field test data to your knowledge pool. =)
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Old 02-15-2009, 12:55 AM   #42
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no power gains can be expected, only a quicker throttle response
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:00 PM   #43
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go for it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland07 View Post
Hey, TB.

I'm pretty curious about this mod. I'm in an 07 ZX3 with a DIY SRI, that being the only engine mod. I'm using a stock MAF tube, with the MAF sensor reversed to work with the DIY setup.

This looks like something I could handle, mechanically. Will I be getting any noticeable gains from this, with my setup? And later, if I finally pony up the cash for a K&N FIPK?

Give me the go ahead and I'll do this, and add some more field test data to your knowledge pool. =)
Go for it, that's why we made it a sticky!

so far we have lots' of viewers, but only one "customer". (warneej was the only willing guinea pig so far, but nemesis enforcer will be testing this out later this week.)

As warneej said, don't expect any power gains, just a boost to the throttle response. The car will def feel more lively off the line.

If you are running a stock intake manifold and stock diameter MAF tube, with just a CAI then there is little to be gained from a larger TB other than throttle response.

This mod will give you more throttle response, but keeps stock TB size which is perfectly matched to the stock MAF housing.

If you have a CAI and purchase a larger TB, then your stock MAF tube is your intake restriction, and the TB is probably a waste of money.

If you get a CAL for larger MAF tube amd make some radical changes or add forced induction, then you could benefit from a larger TB.
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:02 PM   #44
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I got my spare TB for Honhon so when I find time this week I will give this a try.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:57 AM   #45
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First i'd like to say this is the best "how to" write up i've seen! I like the time and thought behind all this. Very nice job. But..... I've discussed TB mods with my engineers (U of M grads) at work which is a "automotive testing" facility, so we have the back round. Anyway, things they learned and tested, were that an increase in TB diameter doesn't increase flow or response as nearly as much as
decreasing the flows restriction (throttle blade). This being said and looking at the pics, it seems to me that with the ducktail on the front side, restriction would increase because the flow smacks a flat 1/4 inch part of the blade opposed to being ramped over it like the oem design. That 1/4 inch smack seems like it would cause a bit of turbulance. I would however like to say that being in the "auto testing" field, i have seen some odd things work very well. I am not an engineer, though i am surrounded by them and love proving them wrong more then i should be able to. Illinipo?

Nevermind, i re-read what illinipo said and it' basically the same as what i stated. Except that turbulance at the TB will definetly decrease the flow through it, and possibly increase IAT a tad bit. But hey, more testing needs to be done on a great idea. Im not sold....yet.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:18 AM   #46
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well youre not likely to have laminar flow in that spot of the intake anyway, the reynolds number is so high, its right after a bend, and youre putting an obstruction right in the center of the flow, which is going to have boundary layer separation at the end of it.

what would help you the most (and what has been done here) is to reduce the boundary layer separation at the far end of the throttle plate. this will reduce restriction quite a bit (and is probably why the engineers say its most effective).

here is a great pic to explain boundary layer separation, and as a side note it also explains why there are dimples on golf balls (its a game of surface tension)




did I answer your question?
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:18 AM   #47
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way over my head...i just draw things for a living...
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:19 AM   #48
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But the transition is now greater, and with more "turbulance". I understand the separation has more "time" to stabilize, but as you said before... once it hits the manifold, all bets off. And it's so close to the IM. Forgive me on my physics knowledge as most are theory's i have a hard time believing. Mathamatically solved but not physically proven. As for dropping and shooting a bullet, they hit the ground at the same time my ass. Damn variables. I vote for a flow bench test!

Also, thanks illiniopo for sharing this info and getting technical. Because of this i will be doing some studying tonight. ;)
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:23 AM   #49
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dropping vs shooting a bullet... the shot one has a higher initial velocity so it would hit the ground first.

but that is off topic lol


even tho the manifold is right there, the thick wake shown above does its part to restrict flow. when you move the boundary separation further down like that and make the wake smaller, there is less restriction to the flow into the plenum.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:48 AM   #50
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Too many variables, what shell size, trajectory angle, ground level, weather, etc..... Lol

But im understanding better now. The toss up for me is : the thick wake seems less of a restriction then a larger, more drastic separation with what seems to me, would cause more turbulance at the separation. This judgement on the thottle blade pics alone. Like i said, i'm by far an engineer. But i understand your point, i just have my own theory.

I got an idea, make the ducktail rounder and hammer some dimples in it!
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