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Old 10-29-2008, 11:08 AM   #21
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Even with an NA car you WILL get hot gases and fumes coming out of the PCV ..... dont believe me, just take a look at the inside of your intake and then tell me where all the oil film comes from.

Those emissions are what "gums up" your IACV, throttle body blade (causes sticking) and leaves an oil film on the inside of the manifold.

Why??? even in good motors you still have a small amount of blowby and you also have alot of internal air flow from the movement of your pistons moving up and down. The PCV being routed back into the intake is PURELY an emmissions thing.
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:28 PM   #22
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duudes.

executionerhk: Yes, just use a small filter on the valve cover. I attached a picture of the ITG breather that FocusSport includes with the CoolFlo SRI... I had problems with oil dripping from it (due to SLOSHING), so I got a hose (fo free) from Autozone, along with a small filter (had to pay for that, hehe); attached it so the filter sits a few inches higher than the valve cover, and havent had any problems.

03orangesvt: The 'gumming' emissions should only come from the lower hose... The hose that is connected to your intake manifold without a filter, also the one that functions as the exit for all those nasty gases in your crankcase. Hot gases and fumes from the PCV valve? Yes, thats what I'm talking about. Just don't confuse the PCV valve with the crankcase breather tube.

I was trying to avoid opening mspaint, but I went ahead and drew up how I understand the airflow in the engine to work.

Anyone agree/disagree with this? I also attached an image of a design that I think sucks... SRI/CAI with the breather tube in the actual intake tract, not just pulling air from the atmosphere (airbox) like the OEM setup does. this setup would definitely pull an oily mess all through your intake tube and throttle body. YUCK, huge fail.
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:51 PM   #23
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Guess what... there are hot gases that come from the top vent... they come from BOTH vents.... I was NOT confusing the two.
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:39 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03OrangeSVT View Post
Guess what... there are hot gases that come from the top vent... they come from BOTH vents.... I was NOT confusing the two.
Yeah, of course hot gas can come out the top vent... its a direct path to inside your engine. Hot air rises, so without vacuum pulling air through the PCV valve, you'll get fumes (and oil mist, if you don't have a filter) coming out the vent.

Sticking the breather into your intake tract (like the one in the picture) is a terrible idea. You'll have a very messy intake tube and throttle body. The stock airbox places the breather where it can intake clean air... which is all it needs. You're actually better off than stock with a simple breather because you wont be trying to pull air from the airbox (which is already a low-pressure zone when the engine is sucking in air).

That diagram shows how the PCV system was designed to work (and the only way it can do its job, which is to keep your oil & crankcase clean).
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:09 PM   #25
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On the whole functionality of the breather system:

mattellermets, I'm sorry but I am going to have to agree that you are confused. Please go back to page 1 and watch my short video. I will make another Friday if I get a bit of time showing how the pressure/vacuum functions at the valve cover port, the video is measured off the dipstick tube.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:41 PM   #26
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"Just don't confuse the PCV valve with the crankcase breather tube."

Why not, they are the same thing. The valvecover breather is completely separate from the PCV system (including tube and valve)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattellermets View Post
without vacuum pulling air through the PCV valve, you'll get fumes (and oil mist, if you don't have a filter) coming out the vent.
no you will not air cannot come up through the engine to the valvecover area like that. What you will get is air and oil coming out what is now the crank breather (formerly PCV tube).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattellermets View Post
The stock airbox places the breather where it can intake clean air...
the VC breather's job is not to intake air, you are confused. At times, like when the engine is cooling off, it does. But normally it is just a tube with nothing flowing in it. When the air under the VC heats up, it expands. Where does it go? out the breather tube. THAT is why it is there.


For the confused patrons, PCV stands for Positive Crankcase Ventilation. As in, there is a tube and a one-way check valve that only lets air OUT of the crankcase.

There is also this little tube by the valvecover and intake. that is the valvecover breather. It lets the valvecover breathe, nothing more.

Now, some of you may be wondering Well, how does air get INTO the crankcase??? how is there this flow??

the answer is, there doesnt HAVE to be flow. The PCV is hooked up to the intake manifold, so the crankcase is basically put under vacuum. there doesnt HAVE to be flow. It can just be in vac.

Sometimes, however, there IS flow. this comes from blowby, dissolved gasses evaporating out of the oil, cavitation created by the oil pump (rare), etc.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:23 PM   #27
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^^ all good valid information, the only thing i've understood differently is that the vacuum in the lower crankcase does reach the valve cover, drawing air in through the breather tube. (i think i might have used the word 'crankcase' for 'valve cover' in previous posts ... sorry if that caused confusion)

this only happens at idle/low throttle/high vacuum situations; at WOT, because there isn't much vacuum, any blowby is likely to cause positive crankcase pressure, which will show up as fumes at the breather (in the airbox to get sucked into the engine, if your breather is there... should only be fumes, no oil).

a draft tube on the PCV valve is a compromise; you won't get any vacuum while holding still, but at high speeds you'll always have vacuum. at WOT at high speeds, you'll still have vacuum, so you wont get as much blowby out your breather or into your intake.

can anyone explain why else V8 engines put a PCV (connected to vacuum or draft tube) in one valve cover and a breather in the other? be careful trying to actually read about this, because you'll find out they are there to provide airflow through the entire engine (lower crankcase included)... and you might have to admit that i wasn't wrong... *ohno*

otherwise, PLEASE prove me wrong, i'm not here to argue, i'm here to learn, and help other people whenever possible. if i'm mistaken on how PCV systems work, or if the Focus is a special case, i'd love to be corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
watch my short video
that video doesn't have sound on firefox or IE. it just shows the oil pan can see 5-10 psi of vacuum... which is expected. not very informative...
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:27 PM   #28
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^^ all good valid information, the only thing i've understood differently is that the vacuum in the lower crankcase does reach the valve cover, drawing air in through the breather tube. (i think i might have used the word 'crankcase' for 'valve cover' in previous posts ... sorry)

this only happens at idle/low throttle/high vacuum situations, at WOT, because there isn't much vacuum, any blowby is likely to cause positive crankcase pressure, which will show up as fumes at the breather, or as fumes in the airbox (then get sucked in, should ONLY be fumes though, no oil).

a draft tube on the PCV valve is a compromise; you won't get any vacuum while holding still, but at high speeds you'll always have vacuum. at WOT at high speeds, you'll still have vacuum, so you wont get as much blowby out your breather or into your intake.

can anyone explain why else V8 engines put a PCV (& vacuum or draft tube) in one valve cover and a breather in the other? be careful trying to actually read about this, because you'll find out they are there to provide airflow through the entire engine (lower crankcase included)... and you might have to admit that i wasn't wrong... *ohno*

otherwise, PLEASE prove me wrong, i'm not here to argue, i'm here to learn, and help other people whenever possible. if i'm mistaken on how PCV systems work, or if the Focus is a special case, i'd love to be corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
watch my short video
that video doesn't have sound on firefox or IE. it just shows the oil pan can see 5-10 psi of vacuum... which is expected. not very informative...

Quote:
Originally Posted by illinipo View Post
"Just don't confuse the PCV valve with the crankcase breather tube."

Why not, they are the same thing. The valvecover breather is completely separate from the PCV system (including tube and valve)
Yeah, theres one of the times I meant to say "dont confuse the PCV valve with the valve cover breather tube"
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:51 PM   #29
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It is to much information for my tiny mechanic brain...
so what should I do to use my SIR?

Clear answer first... then argue LOL
Please!!
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:42 PM   #30
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It's honestly up to you. You can either try the JB Weld method of putting a nipple on it (after the MAFS of course), block it off as I did or leave it open as others do. Different people have different ideas of what is the proper method (as you can tell). Truth is there is no clear cut cure all method.
Best I can advise is, understand how the system works and pick your poison.
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