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Old 10-14-2008, 08:55 PM   #1
danskool
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2002 Auto Transmission

My moms car that i have been fighting with. It started out, when it went to 3rd it would hold for a second then drop out. Rev to the moon. OD light on or off, No difference. Had to slow down to about 20 or dead stop to go again. She made it home. I went for a ride and she was right. It actually dropped to second gear. If the TC was locked it would make you lock your seat belt.The next day it would not shift into 3 at all. 1st,2nd then like it would drop into neutral.

We took it to a local shop. They put the scanner on it. Gave me a bunch of crap. It didn't have a CEL light at all. They sounded uncertain also. But gave me a 1600 quote.

So the last couple days i have been living on the internet trying to help her out. I found out about "a" solenoid problem. And picked one up at the dealer.

New Filter/oil and "a" solenoid. Peice of cake.
It still does it and i still don't get a light or a code(borrowed my buddies reader)

I also Ohm'd out all the other solenoids there. All within spec. Could not find anything wrong. I even checked the temp sensor in the pan, Good also.

If it gave me a code it would be easier. Could it possible be another solenoid ?

Any suggestions? Thank you in advance.


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Old 10-15-2008, 06:54 AM   #2
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I borrowed my buddies code reader and no codes. No light. And the tranny shop said there was but would not tell me what or give me a print out. They said i wasn't paying for the code reader so they were not obligated to share. Dang. That is bad business.

What i am thinking of trying is. Seeing the original "a" solenoid was ok after i replaced it with a new one. Thinking of sticking it in the "b" hole. And jumbling up The three "c,d,e" solenoids. And see if the problem changes in any way. If it is a solenoid this free test would confirm a mechanical problem with one of the solenoids. Probably "c,d,e".

Also a note. When mom drove it home it would hold 3rd gear and hit OD sometimes for a a while then let go into Nuetral or 2nd gear.. But the next day it wouldn't go into 3rd at all. Just rev's. Could this be a leak in the valve body? Were can i find info on a rebuild one? Can i change it out without dropping the tranny?

1st.2nd,reverse, stops,take offs, All normal. Just no 3rd or OD.

Thanks
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:19 AM   #3
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Sounds like one of the solenoids is toast. Might as well have all three replaced at the same time.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Sounds like one of the solenoids is toast. Might as well have all three replaced at the same time.

Thanks for the reply. I have the same feeling. You think i am on the right path to success? Just unsure on which one. But i have printed this that i found last week(below). And found it Buried on my desk this morning. I found this info from someone that posted on here so i can't give credit. (THANKS TO YOU) and i Added to it.

I want to jumble the remainder up move in different holes 45 minutes job. Solenoids (c,d,e)

If it develops a different symptom Then it is definitely a solenoid.
If it the symptom stays the same than it isnt a solenoid.
I am leaning to the C solenoid. But dont want to spend $100 to try it. My test will prove it first.
The test will be a free(no cost) test. I can reuse the same oil.

Shift solenoid A: P/N XS4Z-7H148-AA $45.00 same as A,B
This solenoid appears to ONLY control 3rd to 4th gear shifts. (CHANGED)

Shift solenoid B: P/N XS4Z-7H148-AA $45.00 same as A,B
This solenoid only controls torque converter lockup. When this solenoid is activated, The clutch inside the torque converter locks the stator to the impeller, making it a mechanical connection rather than a fluid one. Improves engine efficiency, and also drops the rpm by 200-300. (No converter problem evident)

Shift solenoid C: P/N XS4Z-7G484-AA $95.00 same as C,D,E
This is the big mamma. This solenoid controls the forward clutch for each shift. It is a pulse width-modulated solenoid, meaning the time length of a shift can be changed via an ECU tune. If this solenoid goes bad, you will have issues with the rpm jumping up really high during shifts and the trans will hesitate to go into gear.( Not present currently but possible)

Shift solenoid D: P/N XS4Z-7G484-AA $95.00 same as C,D,E
This solenoid controls whether or not first gear is engaged. When it is activated, it empties an accumulator filled with fluid, which releases a spring that engages 1st gear. This is why 2->1 downshifts are relatively rough. This solenoid also opens the 2nd/4th band of clutches when 1st is engaged. If this solenoid goes out, you may experience bucking when starting from a stop, or troubles downshifting into first. (not evident. And doubtful)

Shift solenoid E: P/N XS4Z-7G484-AA $95.00 same as C,D,E
I am having a hard time figuring out what this one does, but it appears to only control 2nd to 3rd shifts. (very Possible and I am leaning this is it)

EPC solenoid:
This solenoid controls how much pressure is in the solenoid system. It is told how much to give by the throttle position sensor. More throttle = more pressure. (This is if for sure working ok)

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Old 10-15-2008, 10:46 AM   #5
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Yeah, that was the thread that Pete (Illinipo) had up this past summer. Only someone on a complicated level such as hisself could easily decipher it. j/k You rock Pete!

It definitely sounds like you're on the right path onto narrowing it down to the C solenoid that regulates pressure for all the other ones.

Here's a cheap suggestion that b16SIR1991 has mentioned to other members here in the past. Just go to your Ford dealer and complain about your gas mileage and they should reflash your ECU at no cost. See if the reflash of the ECU changes the action of the C solenoid operation.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:09 PM   #6
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My car had the reverse drum and reverse steels go out which caused it to lose 2nd and 4th gears. 188 in parts and 700 in labor. Was done before I bought it. Could be a similar issue. When my shift solenoid A went out it still shifted just really hard and sometimes would drop to neutral for a bit. It may be some of the inside of the tranny. Good luck.
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Old 10-15-2008, 12:17 PM   #7
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Danskool, even the EBC Ohms were within spec? I was thinking that maybe the EBC solenoid is able to regulate pressure up until when you need to go into OD, is where it loses it's capacity. Did you get a cost on that piece?
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:58 PM   #8
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Shift drums? Humm. Have to research that. Looks like a shop will be fixing my moms car. I am not getting anywere.

Yea, I ohm's all solenoids. All perfect. It never gets to OD. Or 3rd gear.

Yesterday i replace "a"

Tonight.
I stopped and picked the large solenoid from ford.

Dropped pan
I used old "a" and stuck it in the "b" hole. Put old "b" on the shelf
Seeing i had no change yesterday.
Stuck New large solenoid in the "D" hole.
Went for a ride. Same No 3rd
No change at all. Same

Dropped pan.
Stuck old "d" solenoid in the "c" hole
No change at all. Same

Dropped pan.
Stuck old "c" and in the "e" hole. Put "e" on the shelf.
Rotated all the way through now.
No Change at all. Same Exact Symptoms. All the time.

All in 1 hour and 45 minutes.

Interesting Idea about getting the computer flashed.. Dad said he talked to a guy today and said he has seen in a few focus trannys that the oil passage ways develop a cracks and loose pressure. Hummm.. Then why not other gears? How about changing out the valve body? Is there a rebuild kit for it? Not sure on that either. Sure started to sound like an internal pressure leak of sorts. Probably have to start looking for a shop.

Dan

PS.. Used 1/4" drive air ratchet on pan bolts. 20 bolts oily socket, started making my hands cramp.
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Old 10-18-2008, 07:00 PM   #9
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Update.
Stopped at well known transmission guy who has been helping me along the way. Dad and I finally gave up. Probably clutches. He fixes dealer cars trannys if the dealer gets overwhelmed. He said he had a clutch go on the focus the previous week. He showed it to me.. WOW..

1200 to 1500 to get it fixed.Total Rebuild.1yr warranted. Going to show me what went wrong. Maybe i can toss up a pic once i see it. I said "take it" I don't have the time to work on it. It would take me a month to get it out do to my job and dad's job. And they need the car so we will let them rip it out. We should get it back Tuesday/wednesday. They came and picked it up today.

I will keep you posted.
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:44 PM   #10
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Update. Fixed and running great.
Clutch seal was shot. Along with some other parts he showed us. Can't remember the name of it. Tore up front axle from a bad wheel bearing. 1700. Ouch. But fixed.
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