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Old 09-17-2013, 11:43 PM   #191
daffoml
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Missourileo View Post
The tensioner is going to move a little bit. This is kind of iffy. Have you checked with bar Nd pin to see if you're still in time?
Yeah, I went back through it tonight, put the pin in and checked the cams, they were exactly as they were before I started, bar slipped right into exhaust, needed a little tapping from the screwdriver handle to get it into the intake.

I ran it for about 10 minutes with the cover off, no perceptible belt movement through the RPM range. I'm done, buttoning it up, and seeing what happens.

Thanks

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Old 09-18-2013, 02:04 AM   #192
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As long as tensioner stays in window and your belt is not walking in or out then you're ok. Usually when belt walks its cuz the tensioner is either too tight or too loose.
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Old 09-18-2013, 02:59 AM   #193
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You absolutely MUST ALWAYS turn the motor clockwise only while doing that work, if you go slightly past where you want then go back around again. Turning backwards even a slight bit at a crucial moment can produce your '45 degree' error when you shift all belt slack to the wrong side of the belt run. When going clockwise, all belt slack stacks up at the tensioner where it can take it out. Turn crank backwards AT ALL and all the belt slack stacks up at the idler pulley opposite tensioner and cam sprocket friction will stop the tensioner from taking any looseness up. Then the tensioner will be off on the next recheck.

If you are sure you had it all correct, don't be amazed if it seems to move just a little bit when motor is up and running. The tension changes almost instantly as the belt runs in. Main thing is belt taking a set to where it does not wander, that is the key. As long as belt is not running over either pulley edge you will be fine.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:44 PM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anarchyamp View Post
Yeah but I don't get why you would loosen the cam gears? Like some other guy said, why would the gears ever move or change regardless of what the belt has done? So I still don't know, do you absolutely have to loosen and retighten the cam gears? It looks like the guy who made this how to on pages 1&2 did NOT loosen his cam gears.

Here's a vid I just made explaining my concern before I put everything back together because I NEVER want to do this again lol...so I want to be sure that I'm ok and that I wont get p1381 again because this is an interference motor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=72U037-owiA

Sorry the video is a bit long and backwards, (filmed upside down and it flipped everything so everything thats on the right should be on the left and everything thats on the left should be on the right if that makes sense) but I want to be thorough and also forgot to mention in the video that everytime we knocked up against the pin to be at TDC #1, the timing mark on the crank pulley(harmonic balancer) lined up with the raised portion on the block skirt, so I THINK everything is ok.
I'm having the same issue as anarchyamp except I have loosened the Cam sprocket bolts to get the bar to slide in to the slots.
I'm using the OTC 6486 set http://www.amazon.com/OTC-6486-Tool-.../dp/B000RF9YA0

My bar is a tight fit and when I remove the bar to torque the bolts, (using vise grips on the cam against the block) and re check, the bar wont go back in even though they a tiny bit off. I know you are not supposed to torque the bolts with the timing bar installed but I'm having difficulty keeping the cams from moving while torquing.

Any ideas? Or can I assume it is timed since the crank is hitting the pin and using line of sight, they appear to be level? I will try to rotate the engine a few times to see if it ever lines up correctly.

Thanks for any help,
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:17 PM   #195
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Uhh..... my assumption was that you CAN torque the bolts with the timing bar installed as a type of fail-safe IF it slipped a bit, the bar is in the way to catch any movement that MAY occur.

I recall having the bar in.... torquing the bolts then when its all tightened up taking the bar out. Also make sure the cams are the correct way, the bar only goes in 1 way (though looks like it goes in VERY tightly if they are upside town but wont...)
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:49 PM   #196
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Not sure if anyone posted this trick or not. It's not hard to make a tool to hold the cam gears in place while you tq the cam bolt. You could use the cam timing bar to hold them but I wouldn't suggest it.

Here is the tool that I made, cost me $10-15 and took 10 minutes to make.




Worked like a charm. rest it on your shoulder and torque away at the nut. Ether that or brace it against the rad support/firewall.

It also comes in handy for some motor bike and snowmobile clutch removals.

These Camshaft gears are a very poor design. Not sure why they didn't make them with a keyway.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:18 PM   #197
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I made almost a carbon copy of that tool, what Ford uses..........

and you NEVER tighten up with tool in cam slots, best way to break the back of cam off in pieces I know. I use Home Depot 3/16" keyway material, if you get stupid and turn cams with it in, it is soft enough that it just rolls up like a pretzel. Don't ask how I know LOL...................

Keyway stuck in plus a .012" or .013" feeler gauge on both sides makes a perfect slipfit tool and maybe $4 for the keyway. I use Autozone feeler gauge set that quickly unscrews to separate the gauge blades, they can be used to replicate tools of all kinds.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:42 AM   #198
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When I changed mine, with the help of this thread, back in March I used a big crescent wrench on the flat part of the cams, which is located 2 or three lobes from the cam gears. May not be the proper or best way, but it worked for what I had available at the time. It was also better than breaking the cam as others have stated.

You can see what I talking about in the pic. This was shortly after I got the car, and as you can see by the dry rotting it was in dire need of a timing belt. You should have seen all the teeth missing off it.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:39 AM   #199
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Just joined this forum after reading this excellent thread. I am about to change the timing belt on my newly acquired 2002 Focus and I also have some concerns about the need to reposition the cam sprockets. Everything I read says this is to ensure proper belt tension, but I would think belt tension is set by the belt tensioner? Cam sprocket position will affect cam timing, but not belt tension.

In my case, I acquired the car not running and I found the timing belt had slipped at the crankshaft allowing the cams to be retarded by about 30 to 40 degrees. The cams are in time with each other. What I plan to do is rotate the engine till I can insert the cam timing bar, remove the timing belt, rotate the crankshaft till #1 piston is at TDC, install the new belt, remove the cam timing bar, rotate the crank twice to let everything settle in and recheck with the timing bar if the cams are still in time with #1 piston TDC. Since this was previously a running engine I would expect everything would still be in time if the cam sprockets have not been moved or loosened. If there is a problem, now would be the time to make any adjustments, at least in my opinion.

Another concern is finding TDC. All info points to the pin as the recommended and most accurate method, but I see the pin as a precision component and length is critical. 63.4 mm according to my Haynes manual. If quality control of the pin from some sources is questionable, (as some info suggests), or if the pin is not fully inserted, TDC would not be accurately located. Would it not be better to use the old school method of a dial indicator in the #1 sparkplug hole? A dial indicator on the crank would help eliminate any error from the dead zone of piston travel at TDC.

Sorry about the long post from a newbie, but searches were not bringing up specific answers. Thanks for your patience.
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:54 AM   #200
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The timing bar and pin are used for a reason. They are cheap and easy to acquire. You might want to check for valve damage due to the slipping. I have the ford workshop instructions for this procedure, if you want I can send it to you.
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