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Old 09-24-2014, 09:24 PM   #1
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2003 Focus 2.0 SOHC "P" Hydrolocked?

Ok... I've got a 2003 Ford Focus 2.0 liter SOHC "P" series. (The model with the faulty valve seats)

Car had been overheated and sat for almost a year. Pulled the head off. Water/Coolant filled in the cylinders. This is my first engine job and I'm learning. Need some help plzzzzz!

I don't have a lift and only limited money.

I'm trying to salvage the block and pistons, however, the crankshaft will not turn. With the battery, only clicks. Can't get it to turn over manually with socket, but have not attempted a breaker bar yet.

There definitely was rust in the cylinders above the pistons. I cleaned it out pretty good and noticed some scoring on the cylinder wall. I was going to hone the cylinders, but can't seem to get the crank to turn to bring the pistons down to BDC.

Tomorrow when daylight returns I'm going to drain the oil/water (lol) and take the oil pan off and see what it looks like.

Is it likely that I have a damaged connecting rod or broken crankshaft? Or maybe the engine is just frozen with water and/or rust in the underside of the piston? I read about using WD-40. Going to try that too.

Worst case scenario: How hard would it be to rebuild the pistons? Would I have to pull the block out completely? Also, how can I tell if I hone the cylinders too much and need oversize rings, etc.?

Also, it seems more reasonable to buy a re-manufactured head with the valve seat problem already fixed rather than wasting $50 to pressure check my old head, $50 to resurface it, then pay $125 to put the valves in for me and probably have the seats fall out in a few months. Plus I would have to buy the valve components. The head looks reusable to me, but what do I know. I would guess it was just a blown head gasket.

I would prefer to do everything myself if possible. Don't have all the fancy tools though. I'm very frugal.

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!

SCHOOL ME!


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Old 09-24-2014, 10:48 PM   #2
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Rust

Vtrade, plan on boring the cylinders. The rust you see on the cylinder walls has caused pitting. That pitting will not clean up with a (glaze break) hone job. Sorry
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Old 09-24-2014, 11:38 PM   #3
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^^^^ Scored plus pitted isn't good.

Full rebuild with bored cylinders/new head/pistons etc. is a major expense.

That's the point when many decide to do a swap instead, as the engine is coming out anyways.

Marvel mystery oil is one possibility to help free up the rusted in place pistons, some swear by ATF as well. WD40 prob. won't help too much for that. Free it up if you can to confirm the damage, you'll feel better having checked at least.
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:02 AM   #4
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Well, sailor, you talk about the expense for a full rebuild, yet, if I swap a USED sohc "p" series the engine will just blow on me again. THEN, I have just wasted the expenses and am back to square 1.

The "pitting" (which I believe it is) isn't horribly bad. But, it is definitely noticable. What tool should I rent/use to get the measurements to know If I need oversive rings?



I'm about to put the car on jack stands and pull the oil pan and have a looksies. Can I bore the cylinders myself with a honing device or something else with the block still in the car? Or is this a job that has to be taken to a machine shop with the block out? How can I get the block out without a lift if that is my only option? I'm pretty strong, but how much does the block weigh? Hehe. I'd really prefer NOT to have to pull the block out.
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Old 09-25-2014, 11:17 AM   #5
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Some go for the zetec swap instead of doing a full rebuild or SPI swap.

Can't see it from here, but any rust beyond a "stain", along with scoring mentioned, would need a total tear down & bore cylinders for oversize pistons for a proper repair. You'd first have to check what sizes are avail., and look at/measure the bore by a machinist for the best guess at what size would clean it up.

Looking at the cylinders to see how the crosshatching looks & if it's worn enough to have a ridge at the top of the cyl. is the first estimate for wear. If ridged, a dial bore gauge & micrometer can give an idea how bad - such tools aren't rented AFAIK.

At a guess, old plus scoring plus rust would need a second over piston size (.50 mm) to get a clean bore after bore & hone.

For a less than perfect job, if the rust/scoring is minor enough to virtually disappear with a ball hone job, it could conceivably be done in place. IIRC the SPI allows removal of the pistons/rods when installed so this COULD be attempted. Many have replaced a broken piston in the frame with success after a valve seat drop so there is some hope.

Overall, I hope that explains why there isn't a simple answer. "fingernail catch" level of of scoring/pitting/cylinder ridge is one rough guide to wear/damage that won't clean up with light honing.
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Old 09-25-2014, 12:04 PM   #6
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You shouldn't be looking for what parts you need.

This is a situation where the engine should be pulled and sent to the local machinist for a rebuild.
That is, if you plan on the car lasting longer than a few days to a few months.
You don't have the tools to do it correctly. Sorry.



Can you just loosen it up and hope it runs?
Probably. But don't expect it to last long or run properly.



What that rust and pitting does is make spots where the rings don't grab and oil seeps past. So now the car wants to burn oil. Also the sharp edges will cause the rings to flutter, this tears them up and puts stress on them. If bad enough it can crack them. Then you're using oil and loosing compression. Feels like you're towing a boat power wise.

A smooth, concentric bore is what you want. If you don't have that, let a certified machinist (AERA) provide you with one.
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Old 09-25-2014, 01:03 PM   #7
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Well I got the car on some jack stands and got the oil pan off. It's definitely rusted as well. I was able to get the crank off and sprayed some penetrating oil all over everything.

I want to pay to have as little done as possible, and do as much as I can by myself. I want to be able to rebuild engines. So, does boring require expensive machinery and must be done in the machine shop?

This is what's included in a gasket set I can purchase:

-Piston Rings
-Pistons
-Main Bearings
-Rod Bearings

* Pistons & Rings are available in Standard sizes and Oversizes: .20, .40. Engine Bearings are available in Standard sizes and Oversizes: .10, .20, .30.

So, can I bore the cylinders myself to a specific measurement? Or should I just pull the block and have them do it to a specific measurement. What size should I go?

It seems everything is accessible with the oil pan off and leaving the block in. Also, if I take the passenger wheel off I should have room to slide the crankshaft out.

*I'm going to start taking things out of the block next, lol. Not really sure what everything is but it appears it will need to be cleaned up anyways. I read to keep the parts of the pistons 1 through 4 separated so I don't get them mixed up.

I really don't want to pay somebody if I can do something myself. I'm a very fast learner and I love learning this stuff so any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

I WANT TO BE ABLE TO REBUILD ENGINES!

Also, I was a little confused as to how to get the valves out of the head. I rented a compression tool but couldn't quite figure it out. If I remove the bolt on top will the spring come flying out and put my eye out? I'm a little scared of it hehehehehe.
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Old 09-25-2014, 01:16 PM   #8
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Don't rebuild that engine, it has no future. Read the threads about the Zetec swap and start hunting around for a good salvage engine. That's your most economical option. It will be by far the cheapest and the least time-consuming.

Toby
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Old 09-25-2014, 01:37 PM   #9
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http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2003...the-ford-2-0l/

Do you have any measuring tools?
You'll need them if you want to REBUILD ENGINES.

It isn't simply replacing parts. Rebuilding an engine isn't for the I can turn a wrench with the help of internets monkey. If you don't even know what the parts are, it's not for you.
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Old 09-25-2014, 03:52 PM   #10
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Not trying to be mean but as said, the engine is pretty much junk and thinking you can bore it yourself shows the skill level there. Boring takes a while to pick up and absolute extreme attention to detail, a good boring man is VERY hard to find now, most in the shops now are nothing but bloody butchers. You need a job in a machine shop to pick the skills up and you won't be able to consider yourself any good at it until you have passed maybe 25 blocks under your belt.

If motor sat for year with water in it then the cylinder walls will be rusted deep enough so that no available oversize piston will work except maybe .060". It will probably take that much bored (.030" per side) to clean up that much damage. Even then may not. The car does not care how much money you have...........and with nothing to work with you are still at square one, I'd go different engine there if I were you, the SOHC is full of potential grief, the DOHC can't be destroyed as long as you keep oil in it.
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