CFM Tubular Front Control Arms NOW AVAILABLE!

[illinipo]

Originally Posted by fhg959

How much would the cost increase if you tig weld these arms? what about changing the material to chrome-moly 4130 for added strength? I'd rather pay $600-700 for control arms that I know are strong enough than to cheap out and be uncertain of when my suspension is going to break. Not saying that CFM ones don't do their job, I'm just saying that I would rather pay extra for something that I know is stronger and proven under the worst circumstances. CFM, I seriously think that you should fabricate 2 versions of these arms, the ones currently under production and the ones that I'm proposing.

ive already tried proposing this, the answer was that the production cost would be too high for tig welding, and that the manufacturer has used this same material for years on many other applications including high-powered drag cars... I forgot what the alloy was but if you give them a call they'll be happy to not tell you anything about their product. They refuse to release any type of technical analysis on their arms including a simple ansys output...

[fhg959]

Originally Posted by illinipo

ive already tried proposing this, the answer was that the production cost would be too high for tig welding, and that the manufacturer has used this same material for years on many other applications including high-powered drag cars... I forgot what the alloy was but if you give them a call they'll be happy to not tell you anything about their product. They refuse to release any type of technical analysis on their arms including a simple ansys output...

Oops, I think I missed that post. Anyways, the part about the info is weird. Usually manufactureres brag about the materials they use and give technical info (that they assume we don't undrstand) to impress you. It is weird that they don't want to tell you anyhting about it. Either they are holding to a super secret, or they are cheaping out on the materials and stuff or what could be worst, they haven't analyzed them yet.

[illinipo]

I had the same thoughts. Kinda scary.

FWIW its a bunch of aero engineers running the place, no mechanicians to be found.

[SVT_BMXer]

Now this may be a silly question as suspension is still fairly new to me. What benefit would you gain from these? Added stiffness I take it? Also, for a car driven daily, spirited driven regularly, would it be worth the money to pick up a set of these or are there better option for DD such as poly bushings, larger sway bar, or a set of coilovers or cupkit?

[tb1999]

CFMFOCUS2

William,

I just want to lend some support as one of your customers of the past 18 months. CFM is a reputable outfit caught in the middle of an issue that is the product of unknown circumstances from a supplier.

Please keep us all up-to-date on what you learn from blue-moon.

I would not be concerned about their lack of details discussed in chat-rooms at the moment. If they are professionals from an aerospace industry then they are fully aware of all aspects of product liability and will not openly discuss details or speculation until they are finished with their tests and arrive at a final and thoroughly documented conclusion.

I'm not sure why slowMaz-duh3 is all infuriated over this situation, the fella on focal jet with the bent bumper and busted LCA is not even flaming CFM and the Focal Jet crowd all appear to be keeping their heads screwed on tight, working with CFM and offering constructive input! I hope slowMaz-Duh3 is also aware that if he continues to levy accusations about CFM's knowledge or lack of testing without first hand info about the facts may become eligible as a defendant to a defamation/slander lawsuit. You can't just publish any BS about someone or a company in a public forum, it's illegal!

Slander (noun)

1.saying of something false or damaging

the act or offense of saying something false or malicious that damages somebody's reputation

2.false and damaging statement

a false and malicious statement that damages somebody's reputation

I'm not sure what statute would apply here, but since we are all in different states of this fine union, I would expect that in this case it would be a Federal offense, known as "Fel-on-ious Slander".

Has a nice ring, eh?

By the way, Happy New Year and I need to speak with you about an Innovate LM-1 that crapped out on me, I'll call you during the week.

[CFM Focus]

Today I visited the manufacturer of our control arms to discuss the results of their analysis of the failure and they insist that it is an extremely rare occurence due to a weak spot in that particular piece of tubing. I was told that in the 8 years that they have been in business, they have had only two pieces of tubing have broken while being bent and that this is the first control arm failure (I googled for any other reported failures and couldn't find anything). They have offered to add a gusset to the area which is prone to failure even though they consider it unnecessary due to the original design being plenty strong.

I have had a set installed on my '02 SVT with H&R coil overs, 19" wheels with 35 series tires and Baer brakes for almost 5,000 miles without any problems. Ever since this issue came up, I have been driving my car harder than ever but the arms have taken every bit of the abuse so far. I even had a tire blowout a few days ago after smashing the brakes while swerving in another attempt to make the control arms fail.

We have temporarily removed the item from our shopping cart until we receive some of the updated pieces. We feel that adding the gusset will eliminate the possibility of any more failures.

We have decided to reimburse terrasmak for material damages caused by the failure since the manufacturer has determined that failure was due to weakness in metal and not from abnormal abuse to the part.

[illinipo]

okay cool. But i'd still like to see the technical material analysis myself.

another thing, you say you swerve and corner hard to test the arms.... I would agree with the manufacturer's claim that the arms are designed plenty strong for sustained loading like this. What I believe failed that arm (and what I believe is a overlooked situation for the design) was a shock load causing creep or fast fracture due to a crack. This can only be tested in the real world by driving over lots and lots of bumps and potholes. This type of failure is also made more possible when a metal that work hardens (like a steel with high alloy content) is used. Shock loading is MUCH more damaging to welds and metals than sustained loading.

Long story short, and my view on these arms from day 1: It would be next to impossible to break one of these arms just by cornering hard. But for daily driving duties in a city with rough roads, I would be concerned.

[slowmazda3]

Originally Posted by tb1999

CFMFOCUS2

William,

I just want to lend some support as one of your customers of the past 18 months. CFM is a reputable outfit caught in the middle of an issue that is the product of unknown circumstances from a supplier.

Please keep us all up-to-date on what you learn from blue-moon.

I would not be concerned about their lack of details discussed in chat-rooms at the moment. If they are professionals from an aerospace industry then they are fully aware of all aspects of product liability and will not openly discuss details or speculation until they are finished with their tests and arrive at a final and thoroughly documented conclusion.

I'm not sure why slowMaz-duh3 is all infuriated over this situation, the fella on focal jet with the bent bumper and busted LCA is not even flaming CFM and the Focal Jet crowd all appear to be keeping their heads screwed on tight, working with CFM and offering constructive input! I hope slowMaz-Duh3 is also aware that if he continues to levy accusations about CFM's knowledge or lack of testing without first hand info about the facts may become eligible as a defendant to a defamation/slander lawsuit. You can't just publish any BS about someone or a company in a public forum, it's illegal!

Slander (noun)

1.saying of something false or damaging

the act or offense of saying something false or malicious that damages somebody's reputation

2.false and damaging statement

a false and malicious statement that damages somebody's reputation

I'm not sure what statute would apply here, but since we are all in different states of this fine union, I would expect that in this case it would be a Federal offense, known as "Fel-on-ious Slander".

Has a nice ring, eh?

By the way, Happy New Year and I need to speak with you about an Innovate LM-1 that crapped out on me, I'll call you during the week.

The statements that I made are not slander because they were based upon speaking directly with the manufacturer themselves. Their method of testing was beta testing the arms with various volunteers and then sending them out. There was no heat cycling, impact testing, or tensile testing on the structure.

It is common practice for manufacturers to recall entire batches because of one or two failures (see Mazdaspeed Cold Air Intake). There is nothing to your argument, sorry.

Before you go spitting shit about MazDUH, why don't you look at performance statistics and how the technicals of the C1 global platform were in large part designed by MazDUH and used by Ford.

My point is a vendor should not continue voluntarily distributing products that have had a failure that has gone uninvestigated.

[terrasmak]

Originally Posted by illinipo

FWIW its a bunch of aero engineers running the place, no mechanicians to be found.

Since my profession seems to be as a mechanic in the aero industry, i wouldn't bat an eye if i found out an Aeronautical Engineer designed the part.

[illinipo]

the knowledge base required for properly doing aero engineering is COMPLETELY different from the knowledge base required for properly designing mechanical parts. As a mechanician with friends in aero engieering, I can assure you that my friends are not qualified to design these arms. (and I also recognize that I cannot design airplanes...)