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SVT Performance (2002-2004) The place to chat about any 2.0L SVT DOHC Zetec engine performance, tuning and exhaust related upgrades.

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Old 11-04-2007, 11:31 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markysparky66 View Post


sorry i cant tell you my secret :)
helium in the tires?
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Old 11-05-2007, 08:31 AM   #42
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Birthday clown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markysparky66 View Post


sorry i cant tell you my secret :)
I'll bet you're a birthday party clown and your car is full of helium balloons.

Either that or your were in a horrible crash where you ripped the entire right side of your car off.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:05 AM   #43
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TELL ME.......if that is the real weight, then your interior is gutted......
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Old 11-05-2007, 05:17 PM   #44
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good God.. I bet my car weighs close to 2850...
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Old 11-05-2007, 05:37 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelotonracer2 View Post
So... considering a car that weighes 2,683-ish pounds and has 170 hp... the power to weight ratio is 15.78 pounds per hp. A VW GTI weighes 3170 (base, with no options) and comes out to 15.85 pounds per hp. Granted, it has 207 pft of torque (at the engine), but the hp is very close. Why is the SVT so much slower than cars with poorer power to weight ratios??? I'm guessing the lack of torque really hurts the SVT as well as inferior gearing.

Here's where I am going with this....

I plan on taking as much weight out of my '03 SVT as it is humanly possible. I'll buy another SVT as my daily commuter.

I'll get a FULL carbon fiber hood, OEM look carbon fiber front fenders, carbon fiber rear hatch, carbon fiber rear wing, remove the back seats, rear seat belts and mechanisms, replace the front seats with lighter racing style seats, install a 7 pound Braille battery, remove the spare, jack and stereo unit, speakers, wiring harnesses etc... remove the power window motors and replace with standard Focus ZX3 window cranks, remove most of the interior including any sound deadner, remove A/C compressor and set up a custom idler pulley, remove HVAC unit, install lighter crank pulley, install aluminum flywheel and Centerforce clutch, install ORP, find the lightest exhaust system on the market, I have 18" OZ Ulteggera wheels that weigh 16.5 pounds each and will couple them with lightweight (19.5 pound per) 215/35-18 tires and remove anything else that's not absolutely needed.... I'll also remove the sunroof glass and motor and replace it with a custon carbon plate.

How much, realistically do you think I could get rid of weightwise doing the above? I realize that's ALOT of work but I would also expect to remove a significan't amount of weight. As far as increasing the power a little, I want to stay NA and plan on Toms tune, SRI, 67mm throttlebody, underdrive pulleys, lightweight exhaust system, MSD coil with wires, new copper plugs, ORP and that's about it. I might consider stroking or big bore kit if it were possible to without robbing a bank AND it could be reliable with the right tuning.

For better handling I'll lower the car some (springs and shocks/struts), add some chassis bracing, install bigger roll bars front and rear, R&R all the motor mounts with better/stiffer ones, install short shifter, remove heat shields...

I'm curious to how removing weight and lightly increasing engine power a little using this platform... will have effect on performance... straight line acceleration AND handling.

Please share your thoughts and ideas...
HP doesn't really make the car go faster.. TQ does...Also, the gearing, is not great for a straight line event. Ford did not underrate the car. Mine dyno'd at 152.9whp and 132tq basically stock. Add in the ~15% drive train loss and it's actually closer to 180bhp and 155 tq. Doesn't the GTI also have a LSD?Stock dyno sheet of an 07 GTI:


Most manufacturers claim slightly reserved power numbers for cars so they can avoid what Ford had to do with the stangs a few years back as well as for insurance reasons...



Also, a MSD coil is not needed. The stock coil pack works on cars pushing over 300whp...
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:17 PM   #46
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"HP doesn't really make the car go faster.. TQ does...Also, the gearing, is not great for a straight line event. Ford did not underrate the car. Mine dyno'd at 152.9whp and 132tq basically stock. Add in the ~15% drive train loss and it's actually closer to 180bhp and 155 tq. Doesn't the GTI also have a LSD?Stock dyno sheet of an 07"

"Also, a MSD coil is not needed. The stock coil pack works on cars pushing over 300whp..."

---------------------
As far as torque v.s. horsepower, I disagree. A wide/long (high rpm) horsepower curve makes a vehicle "faster" (more usable top end). Torque is what gets the vehicle moving (ie: acceleration). Reducing weight will have the exact same effect as far as acceleration is concerned. That's because the actual torque at the wheels is the measurement of moving one pound (weight), in one foot (distance)per second (time). reducing weight has exactly the same effect as increasing torque!

A perfect example of a car like that with peaky horspower (and a peak hp at nearly 8000 rpm)) is a 255hp 3rd Gen Mazda RX-7. Torque is very low for the hp rating, but since a base or R1 model only weighes 2780 pounds, my R1 RX-7 ran many 13.40's and 13.50's bone stock. With everything else being the same, a fully loaded touring or R2 RX-7 weighed 180-200 pounds more and most ran 14.0-14.30 quartermile times and even had lower trap speeds. If I added a passenger to my R1 during a track run, it made a significant difference in my 1/4 mile times. Also, Honda's S2000 and NSX had good acceleration numbers despite having peaky powerbands. Both are also sub 3000 pound cars. Granted, a Ford Focus SVT is NOT as technilogically advanced but neither is a Mustand LX 5.0 which can be made to accelerate and handle with the best cars in the world (just ask Steve Saleen). Back in the "day" ('86-'87) I remember Shelby Omni GLH-S's beating the snot out of Mustangs and IROCS. care to guess why? First they weighed less than nothing and secondly their 3rd gear was incredible. Not very torquey engines but they seemed that way because they were very light (around 2500 pounds). Jeeez, I would wet myself if I could find one of those for sale stuffed away in a garage somewhere in prestine condition! Now THAT was a quick/fast little econobox (with much less stigma as a Dodge (cough... Neon) SRT-4!

A car can also be a major "dyno-queen" but not perform nearly as well out on the road. Just ask many of the 500-600hp Toyota Supra Turbo owners. Heck, my '04 Lingenfelter supercharged Corvette Z06 outran Supras that had verified 800hp dyno sheets! FWIW, my car also *only* dyno'd 520hp and 450pft to the rear wheels! Like I said, there are obviously alot of other variables involved...

However, you can't have one without the other (torque and horsepower are exactly the same at 5252rpm). As far as the GTI/SVT Focus comparison, an extra 450 pounds is alot to overcome with just 45-50 pft of torque difference between the two engine outputs, especially since power to weight ratio is about the same for the two cars. One reason the Lotus Elise with 190hp and even more so the Lotus Exige with a measly 220hp can keep up with a 400hp/400pft C6 Corvette with almost HALF the power/torque is it takes alot less power to propel a 2,000 pound car (even if the heavier one has nearly 200pft torque more. Gearing makes torque multiplication more of an equalizer, and I am rather unimpressed with the gear spacing on the SVT (1st gear is waaaaaayyyy too long and is probably a really big reason the car suffers in acceleration tests. I wish there was a way to fix that, but I haven't seen any modified gear ratios available for the transmission or a better transmission available. Perhaps there is a better final drive? I haven't seen one but that would certainly help. Also, the DSI switchover is quite unnerving on these cars in stock form. I don't have the dealer updated tune and my runner changover occurs at 6000 rpm and when it hits, it is quite abrupt. I'm sure a tune which not only lets it open sooner (say 5000 rpm) and having a much smoother transition will work wonders with the powerband.

As far as the stock coil pack, maybe it works on a 300whp car with a conventional spark plug with a decent gap, but not with how I am modifying the electrode (read my other posts in the SVT section). You need a little extra juice to jump the gap. The MSD coil seems to do that. Hence why there is much better flame front travel and a more complete burn. The biggest issue I experienced with the stock coil, bigger wires and modified plugs was with idle quality. You get the gap wide enough using the stock coil and drivability suffers. Oddly enough, the MSD must be doing something because I had a consistant 4-5hp/3-4pft gain from about 3000rpm all the way to 7200 on all three dyno runs. The stock coil with the modified plugs and bigger wires did nothing on the dyno and made for an irratic idle (more like a miss).

This is the reason I asked if anyone had any experience with the Brisk plugs that do not have a conventional electrode. My only experience with a completely open style plug design is with Bosch plugs which don't work in many cars (I've never had positive results with ANY of their plugs unless the car application/ignition was designed specifically for them.

Last edited by pelotonracer2; 11-06-2007 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 11-05-2007, 10:52 PM   #47
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how in the HELL did this get started in my thread ????

that is WAAAAAY too much for me to be reading......
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Old 11-06-2007, 12:00 AM   #48
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Oh come on now... this is supposed to be entertaining AND enlightening.. heh. You must be A.D.D. or something! Just kidding.. really!

Nothing like some informative banter!!! Hey and some people might learn something. Isn't that what the forums are for, to share information and different opinions and experiences???
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Old 11-06-2007, 01:03 AM   #49
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i am totally bookmarking this thread...great info pelotonracer
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:55 AM   #50
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I DO have A.D.D. BTW...

I just always seem to have threads that go totally off track, that's all.....
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