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Old 02-18-2008, 04:22 PM   #91
athens7
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I think the problem is fuel related; specifically, the cars can have a tendency to lean out for several reasons. Clogged fuel filters have been mentioned, and may affect older cars. Mine was new, and the filter was as new when we changed it and cut open the old one. I have spent the last 7 months dialing in the tune on my car, with it's mostly stock engine and ancillaries (just hot cams and a 9.5 lb flywheel)) in a 1300 lb, rear wheel drive application. Along the way, the car has gone from cutting out every time I dipped the clutch from higher revs to, after my last tuning session, not cutting out a single time (yet). The PCM settings for idle air and 'rev down' are stock; what's changed is the air/fuel ratio. In its stock PCM form, the car wanted to run very lean, and even changes to the open loop air/fuel would not correct the a/f ratio. We found the MAFS map was biased to a too lean setting, and that the adaptive fuel program exacerbated this problem, making the car run leaner over time. The thought is that the emmissions driven program that cuts fuel flow off when off throttle, coupled with the too lean a/f ratio, compounded by a low mass flywheel, led to the cut off (the PCM couldn't put enough fuel in play fast enough to keep the car from dying). As no engine operating system is perfectly consistent, it is possible that occasionally, normal rich/lean fluctuations in a/f might coincide with clutch engagement and the accompanied rev drop off, leading to a Focus stalling. Even now, when engaging the clutch from higher rpms, the revs drop to 700 or so, flutter 2-3 times without dying, then settle to the 950ish idle. The PCM has never thrown a CEL relating to any of these problems. At the next tuning session we are going to fiddle with the IACV, and between now and then I'll do some data logging on a/f, o2 sensor operation, and injector pulse measurements to try to verify whether the car leans out on clutch engagement.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:59 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by athens7 View Post
I think the problem is fuel related; specifically, the cars can have a tendency to lean out for several reasons. Clogged fuel filters have been mentioned, and may affect older cars. Mine was new, and the filter was as new when we changed it and cut open the old one. I have spent the last 7 months dialing in the tune on my car, with it's mostly stock engine and ancillaries (just hot cams and a 9.5 lb flywheel)) in a 1300 lb, rear wheel drive application. Along the way, the car has gone from cutting out every time I dipped the clutch from higher revs to, after my last tuning session, not cutting out a single time (yet). The PCM settings for idle air and 'rev down' are stock; what's changed is the air/fuel ratio. In its stock PCM form, the car wanted to run very lean, and even changes to the open loop air/fuel would not correct the a/f ratio. We found the MAFS map was biased to a too lean setting, and that the adaptive fuel program exacerbated this problem, making the car run leaner over time. The thought is that the emmissions driven program that cuts fuel flow off when off throttle, coupled with the too lean a/f ratio, compounded by a low mass flywheel, led to the cut off (the PCM couldn't put enough fuel in play fast enough to keep the car from dying). As no engine operating system is perfectly consistent, it is possible that occasionally, normal rich/lean fluctuations in a/f might coincide with clutch engagement and the accompanied rev drop off, leading to a Focus stalling. Even now, when engaging the clutch from higher rpms, the revs drop to 700 or so, flutter 2-3 times without dying, then settle to the 950ish idle. The PCM has never thrown a CEL relating to any of these problems. At the next tuning session we are going to fiddle with the IACV, and between now and then I'll do some data logging on a/f, o2 sensor operation, and injector pulse measurements to try to verify whether the car leans out on clutch engagement.
Very well explained!

Please, keep us informed on what you find.

Love the Caterham BTW!

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Old 02-18-2008, 07:24 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by athens7 View Post
I think the problem is fuel related; specifically, the cars can have a tendency to lean out for several reasons. Clogged fuel filters have been mentioned, and may affect older cars. Mine was new, and the filter was as new when we changed it and cut open the old one. I have spent the last 7 months dialing in the tune on my car, with it's mostly stock engine and ancillaries (just hot cams and a 9.5 lb flywheel)) in a 1300 lb, rear wheel drive application. Along the way, the car has gone from cutting out every time I dipped the clutch from higher revs to, after my last tuning session, not cutting out a single time (yet). The PCM settings for idle air and 'rev down' are stock; what's changed is the air/fuel ratio. In its stock PCM form, the car wanted to run very lean, and even changes to the open loop air/fuel would not correct the a/f ratio. We found the MAFS map was biased to a too lean setting, and that the adaptive fuel program exacerbated this problem, making the car run leaner over time. The thought is that the emmissions driven program that cuts fuel flow off when off throttle, coupled with the too lean a/f ratio, compounded by a low mass flywheel, led to the cut off (the PCM couldn't put enough fuel in play fast enough to keep the car from dying). As no engine operating system is perfectly consistent, it is possible that occasionally, normal rich/lean fluctuations in a/f might coincide with clutch engagement and the accompanied rev drop off, leading to a Focus stalling. Even now, when engaging the clutch from higher rpms, the revs drop to 700 or so, flutter 2-3 times without dying, then settle to the 950ish idle. The PCM has never thrown a CEL relating to any of these problems. At the next tuning session we are going to fiddle with the IACV, and between now and then I'll do some data logging on a/f, o2 sensor operation, and injector pulse measurements to try to verify whether the car leans out on clutch engagement.
I do hope you can figure this out. Are you still tuning with Tom?
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:22 PM   #94
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Yeah, let us know if you get this figured out, I'm sicking of nearly getting hit by buses!!
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Old 02-19-2008, 01:43 PM   #95
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Because of the distance to Tom's shop, I've switched to Balanced Performance Motorsports, just outside of Atlanta. They are also Diablosport dealers with a Dynojet dynomometer.
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Old 02-23-2008, 01:47 PM   #96
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This seems to describe my problem exactly. Hope there is a solution!
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:32 AM   #97
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My car does it too, but I think it's only actually died once.
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:39 PM   #98
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I've had my SVTF since november and it just started doing the same thing, when i slow for a red light the idle fumbles below 900, batt light comes on. I'd just give it some throttle and A-ok. the 4 times it happened it was the same scenario exept yesterday a Fusion next to me jumped the light had 2 lenghts before i got a chance to go, overtook him at about 80, shifted from 3rd to 6th still on the gas about 1/4 and the batt light comes on and i get a little stumble for 3 seconds and than its fine. all stock no tune just a high flow air filter.
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:42 PM   #99
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Since I've had my tune from Tom installed, it hasn't happened again. Usually it happens 1-2 times a week. Nothing so far!
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:56 PM   #100
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I have Tom's tune, too, though. Still happens to me.
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