no harmonic dampener? - Page 8 - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus First Generation > ZETEC Performance (2000-2004)

ZETEC Performance (2000-2004) The place to chat about any 2.0L Zetec engine performance, tuning and exhaust related upgrades.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-07-2008, 12:34 AM   #71
SkaAddict
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Fan#: 1690
Posts: 8,262
FF Reputation: 69 SkaAddict Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (6)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistonbroke View Post
Uhh, balance shafts aren't used for "vibration control."
Uhh, that's the sole purpose of balance shafts...to cancel out vibrations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistonbroke View Post
I have little one cyl. R.C. airplane engines and they don't use it...
Yeah...because a RC airplane engine is exactly the same as a car engine...and I'm sure disassembling a RC airplane engine is equally as difficult and time-consuming as taking even a relatively simple four-cylinder apart to replace internal parts. Based on that assinine analogy, I'm going to remove my fuel injectors and the ECU, as well as the alternator and oil filter because my lawnmower's single-cylinder engine doesn't have them either, which means they aren't necessary
SkaAddict is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-07-2008, 12:49 AM   #72
Pistonbroke
Focus Enthusiast
 
Pistonbroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Fan#: 42552
Location: Canada
What I Drive: Black 2000 ZX3 mtx

Posts: 336
Points 1,962, Level 26
Points: 1,962, Level: 26 Points: 1,962, Level: 26 Points: 1,962, Level: 26
Level Up 62% Completed
Level up: 62% Level up: 62% Level up: 62%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 1 Pistonbroke Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaAddict View Post
Uhh, that's the sole purpose of balance shafts...to cancel out vibrations





Yeah...because a RC airplane engine is exactly the same as a car engine...and I'm sure disassembling a RC airplane engine is equally as difficult and time-consuming as taking even a relatively simple four-cylinder apart to replace internal parts.
You're right about the balance shafts.
__________________
-There is no water holier, than the sweat off a man's brow.-
Pistonbroke is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2008, 12:55 AM   #73
SkaAddict
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Fan#: 1690
Posts: 8,262
FF Reputation: 69 SkaAddict Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (6)
Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_shaft

Quote:
...a balance shaft is an eccentric weighted shaft which offsets vibrations in engine designs that are not inherently balanced
Balance shafts cancel out vibrations caused by an engine being unbalanced. Almost all I4s are imbalanced, no matter how hard you try you cannot build a perfectly balanced I4. Which is why the Zetec has dampening material on its stock idler pulley - to give the vibrations a way out of the engine without going through the main bearings or other sensitive internal parts.
SkaAddict is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2008, 01:02 AM   #74
Pistonbroke
Focus Enthusiast
 
Pistonbroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Fan#: 42552
Location: Canada
What I Drive: Black 2000 ZX3 mtx

Posts: 336
Points 1,962, Level 26
Points: 1,962, Level: 26 Points: 1,962, Level: 26 Points: 1,962, Level: 26
Level Up 62% Completed
Level up: 62% Level up: 62% Level up: 62%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 1 Pistonbroke Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkaAddict View Post
Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_shaft



Balance shafts cancel out vibrations caused by an engine being unbalanced. Almost all I4s are imbalanced, no matter how hard you try you cannot build a perfectly balanced I4. Which is why the Zetec has dampening material on its stock idler pulley - to give the vibrations a way out of the engine without going through the main bearings or other sensitive internal parts.
Ya, I thought balance shafts were there to help balance. I learned something new today.
__________________
-There is no water holier, than the sweat off a man's brow.-
Pistonbroke is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2008, 09:02 AM   #75
1turbofocus
FF Affiliate
 
1turbofocus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Fan#: 1123
Location: Belmont, NC
What I Drive: 2000 ZX3 / 2002 SVT Turbocharged

Posts: 22,191
Points 51,292, Level 100
Points: 51,292, Level: 100 Points: 51,292, Level: 100 Points: 51,292, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 24%
Activity: 24% Activity: 24% Activity: 24%
FF Reputation: 154 1turbofocus Excellent Standing Member 1turbofocus Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (28)
Some of you guys crack me up!

All this talk about balancing and no one word said about Harmonics , why is this debate allways taken into left field about Balance and not much if anything said about what it balances

It is a HARMONIC balancer and nothing to do with how it balances the engine

The HARMONIC balancer is there to help take out the HARMONICS the engine makes from the firing on the rotating assy as well as the HARMONICS the accesories try to take into the engine a balance shaft help this some as well

Ford could of saved ?? guessing $1.50 to 3.00 by not putting that little piece of rubber in the balacer and there was what ? roughly 25 million Foci built , You do the math, It wasent put there for looks

Tom
__________________
Focus-Power: Your #1 Source for Ford Focus Speed, Tuning & Performance!

Customer Support
AIM: hpdyno
Email: hpdyno@aol.com
Phone: 704-249-3745
Site: focus-power.com

Elder 1turbofocus
1turbofocus is online now  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2008, 12:55 PM   #76
goinloco1
Late for Dinner
 
goinloco1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Fan#: 8529
Location: Aberdeen, SD
What I Drive: kermit

Posts: 15,237
Points 14,653, Level 78
Points: 14,653, Level: 78 Points: 14,653, Level: 78 Points: 14,653, Level: 78
Level Up 51% Completed
Level up: 51% Level up: 51% Level up: 51%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 90 goinloco1 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by killer ZETEC View Post
so like i said above you, why not make a stock size pulley out of aluminum that has the rubber bushing? the lighter weight will let it rev a bit faster. but the accessories wont be slowed down. not to mention its easier to find belts and parts if something happens
aluminum has totally different expansion and stress characteristic properties than does steel.
creating a harmonic balancer out of aluminum would subject it to stresses the metal cant withstand.
goinloco1 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2008, 11:14 PM   #77
Pistonbroke
Focus Enthusiast
 
Pistonbroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Fan#: 42552
Location: Canada
What I Drive: Black 2000 ZX3 mtx

Posts: 336
Points 1,962, Level 26
Points: 1,962, Level: 26 Points: 1,962, Level: 26 Points: 1,962, Level: 26
Level Up 62% Completed
Level up: 62% Level up: 62% Level up: 62%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 1 Pistonbroke Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
Some of you guys crack me up!

All this talk about balancing and no one word said about Harmonics , why is this debate allways taken into left field about Balance and not much if anything said about what it balances

It is a HARMONIC balancer and nothing to do with how it balances the engine

The HARMONIC balancer is there to help take out the HARMONICS the engine makes from the firing on the rotating assy as well as the HARMONICS the accesories try to take into the engine a balance shaft help this some as well

Ford could of saved ?? guessing $1.50 to 3.00 by not putting that little piece of rubber in the balacer and there was what ? roughly 25 million Foci built , You do the math, It wasent put there for looks

Tom
There is much to learn about engine harmonics, balance, vibration etc. It's pretty deep engineering. It's one of the "boring" things about engines.
__________________
-There is no water holier, than the sweat off a man's brow.-
Pistonbroke is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-07-2008, 11:23 PM   #78
illinipo
Token Engin-nerd
 
illinipo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Fan#: 37693
Location: Well wouldn't you like to know?, Not Listed
What I Drive: dirty wag; Party; Bavarian phallus

Posts: 3,408
FF Reputation: 272 illinipo Outstanding Standing Member illinipo Outstanding Standing Member illinipo Outstanding Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (19)
haha that depends who you talk to, my dynamics prof gets pretty animated about that stuff LOL
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis_Grant
Remember this list: Bilstein; Penske; Koni; Ohlins; Sachs; Dynamic Suspension.

Not on this list? Almost certainly crap.
SUV this!
illinipo is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-08-2008, 04:29 PM   #79
Pistonbroke
Focus Enthusiast
 
Pistonbroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Fan#: 42552
Location: Canada
What I Drive: Black 2000 ZX3 mtx

Posts: 336
Points 1,962, Level 26
Points: 1,962, Level: 26 Points: 1,962, Level: 26 Points: 1,962, Level: 26
Level Up 62% Completed
Level up: 62% Level up: 62% Level up: 62%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 1 Pistonbroke Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
What engine do you guys think is the easiest to balance or the most naturally balanced? What configuration and number of cylinders?
__________________
-There is no water holier, than the sweat off a man's brow.-
Pistonbroke is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-10-2008, 08:42 PM   #80
iminhell
C2H5OH
 
iminhell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Fan#: 36222
Location: Darwin, MN
What I Drive: 2000 & 2001 ZX3's

Posts: 10,713
Points 18,414, Level 86
Points: 18,414, Level: 86 Points: 18,414, Level: 86 Points: 18,414, Level: 86
Level Up 13% Completed
Level up: 13% Level up: 13% Level up: 13%
Forum Activity 6%
Activity: 6% Activity: 6% Activity: 6%
FF Reputation: 49 iminhell Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (4)
You know what, all this theorizing you guys are doing would be great if the resonate frequencies would flow in one direction, towards the crank pulley/"dampener". Sadly they don't. As with any wave, it will radiate equally in both directions, reach an endpoint and reverse direction at a lesser amplitude.

So, what does this rubber O-ring in the stock pulley do? Like I said, it may dampen the accessories from the crank, that is it.

If you don't believe me, why isn't there some type of dampener on the flywheel side? The harmonics of the transmission can go right through the clutch and to the crank, or vise versa.
iminhell is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
UDP's rockthezx3 SVT Performance (2002-2004) 24 04-04-2007 02:31 PM
UDP Vote-Worth it or Worthless? TainOE ZETEC Performance (2000-2004) 65 01-13-2006 05:44 PM
UDP with Harmonic balancer QuickSilverSVT SVT Performance (2002-2004) 7 02-17-2005 05:59 PM
UDP with harmonic balancer preston77 SVT Performance (2002-2004) 28 01-07-2005 09:51 AM
underdrive pulley, dampener? whetman ZETEC Performance (2000-2004) 5 07-22-2004 10:12 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Audi S3, Ford Fusion and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. Challenger Hellcat - Charger Hellcat