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IMPORTANT: ALL MK3 Focus Owners, I could use your input.

48K views 302 replies 49 participants last post by  FordService 
#1 · (Edited)
IMPORTANT: ALL 2012+ Focus Owners, I need your input. Survey inside.

Alright everyone, I hate to be a bother, but I (and everyone else with the clunk issue) really need your help.

I've been heavily involved in trying to get rid of the suspension clunking issue that plagues the vehicles of many users here (see the master clunk thread HERE), including my own. I've replaced several parts on my own dime, with limited success. However, the noise has always returned.

Recently, a fellow member with a new 2013 Focus (late-August production) brought to light a discrepancy between strut tower braces used on Foci of various production dates. Under my own research, I have found that the updated strut tower brace has been issued different part number (#DV6Z-16A200A)

So, in an effort to hopefully correlate clunking suspensions with specific strut tower versions, I've developed a survey. However, to give you some background before you complete the survey, please view the following:

The following photo is from an early August production Focus ST (FF member: earthling_david, suspension does clunk)


And here is photo from a late-August production 2013 Focus ST. Take note of the reinforcing plate added below the factory strut tower brace that is conspicuously missing from the previous photo. (FocusST.org member: Kragbax, suspension does not clunk)


If your suspension clunks, please complete this survey: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDRLWE90cEVzcThkUVFjRkIyRVB1Zmc6MA#gid=0

If your suspension doesn't clunk, please complete this survey: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDRLWE90cEVzcThkUVFjRkIyRVB1Zmc6MA#gid=0

If you completed my old survey, please complete this survey: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDRLWE90cEVzcThkUVFjRkIyRVB1Zmc6MA#gid=0

Thanks, everyone. Your responses are greatly appreciated!
 
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#177 ·
No reports in Europe on the clunk.
In Russia there have been alot of reports on a knock in the steering rack, and also booming suspension over rough roads at low speeds. The Focus club is huge in Russia, and through data collecting from the club, they reported to Ford Russia and Ford Russia responded by inviting the forum members to a meeting. Now Ford Russia is working together with the Focus members and service departments to work on solutions.
I must say I am very impressed with the response from Ford Russia to work face to face with owners.

Can you imagine such an action from Ford North America. It ain't going to happen I'd say.

Checking the VINs reported to Ford Russia, it appears the 1.6 Ti-VCT models have bad steering racks and the 2.0l (same as USA engine) has the suspension clunk.
 
#178 ·
While i realise that Ford is a regional corporation, it is, at the same time, an international one.. One would hope that if Ford Russia is responsible and attentive and responsive enough to its customers that the head office in Dearborn would take notice and do the same for n. american customers....
If they don't it speaks volumes negatively about Ford as a corporation.
 
#179 ·
Bad news, folks. Clunk is back, no different than before. Ambient temps rose to 52°F today, and the clunk returned right on time.

I'll be back, going to go find a bridge to jump off of. [:(]

On a more serious note, though: Has anyone checked to see if their subframe bolts are tight? It's just about the only thing I haven't checked or replaced, aside from the endlinks.
 
#186 ·
Try disconnecting the end links for a short time to see if the sway bar has anything to do with the noise.
All that work to only have the noise return is a major downer.
This was one of the reasons why I got rid of mine. The other 2 were poor heat output in the winter and the DCT issues. I could have lived with the MFT issues.
Ford corporate must think the bad publicity is less costly than a recall.
I've got news for them. Bad news travels quickly in today's day and age.
 
#181 · (Edited)
Yeah, not happy. I'm also finding a few more ST owners complaining of the same issue, too (unsure of production dates or whether they have the reinforced strut bar just yet). Thread here: http://fordstnation.com/focus-st-repair-shop-service/3298-front-suspension-clunk.html

So much for that escape route.

Endlinks, sway bar bushings, and subframe bolts/bushings are next on my list.

Regardless, I'm just grasping at straws here in an effort to put an end to this madness. I'm literally going insane trying to eliminate this issue.
 
#182 ·
damn this sux [bigcry][bigcry][bigcry][bigcry][bigcry][bigcry]
 
#184 ·
Well, I've replaced everything above the knuckle. Noise is identical. The fact that it reoccurs in warmer ambient temperatures points to something rubber/plastic softening with rising temperatures. I've also found a TON of threads on Mazda forums pointing to sway bar bushing replacement solving clunk issues.

A big bonus is that testing the endlinks and sway bushings is free, and only costs me my time.

I have also noticed that the noise is minimized or even disappears after washing the car and in wet driving conditions; I do give the car a thorough spraying underneath that should get the sway bushings wet, which could be damp the noise temporarily as the water lubricates the bushings.

It's just a theory, but I'll give it a shot. Sway bushings and/or endlinks are cheap, and not *that* hard to change.

One thing that troubles me is that it makes no sense that the noise improves temporarily after a strut bearing/mount change.
 
#185 ·
Maybe when you change the strut bearing mount change requires the lower arm to full down, recentering the sway bar in the bushings, if it does move a little, that could be the problem.
 
#187 ·
Can we say CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT... we need to start this up and see what they do then
 
#189 · (Edited)
Here's some things worth noting:

I've encountering this noise issue at low speeds; through parking lots and while driving through the neighborhood.

I notice it whilst turning at low speeds; either direction.

It manifests at temps above 60F.


I'm starting to think this isn't a vertical coupling issue but rather a lateral, steering torque phenomenon. Something to do with the electric steering mechanism perhaps? Steering linkage?
Or maybe it is something entirely different and something to do with the sophisticated dual-clutch arrangement.

I thought it might be brake caliper related but I've confidently ruled that out as applying the brakes when it happens doesn't' change the behavior.

One thing I am confident about, the CSR Focus Fanatics dance has gone awfully quiet. It's clear they want individual owners to deal directly with dealership service departments. Ford corporate would have engaged Zillon at a more serious level if they really wanted to. Doesn't take much. What you've witnessed here is basic CS coordination - nothing more - many companies have social media positions to show "good faith" involvement in response to channels of poor feedback. That function as a "value add" is questionable. In principal it's really no different than picking up the phone and getting a CS agent. Again, this is one of those highly subjective "rattles & fitment" warranty issues. I implore everyone to engage a dealership within the first 12 months of ownership if they detect this happening to their vehicle. By doing so it get's it registered as a serious complaint.
 
#191 ·
And also, not associated with the Dual Clutch arrangement as mine has a Manual Trans... No auto here
 
#193 ·
I just got a voicemail from Ford Canada regarding this issue. Whenever their lines are clear hopefully I can get through to the rep who called and discuss it.
 
#195 ·
Well, tried a few things tonight. First I tried removing the endlinks and tying the sway bar up.

No luck.

I also found that the subframe bolts aren't centered in the bushings. And, on top of that, they certainly were NOT tightened to the 115 N-m they were supposed to be tightened to. Regardless, the clunking doesn't seem to be much better after tightening them to the proper spec.


Note the shift.
 
#198 ·
Hey, guys
Unfortunately, My car also has the clunk noise. It has been out of service for more than 50 days in 4 months. No Fix.
I just want to share some information .
Mine is 2012 SEL, bought as a demo.First ,everything was great. But there was a small imperfection. When turning the steering wheel to the left at very low speeds, I could hear a friction noise. Like two rubber pipes rub against each other. Because I was going to do a oil change , I told the service guy to check that noise. And that was the beginning of the nightmare.
I think the first two service records might be the key.
1st. TSB 12-6-17 performed(Both front spring and upper strut bearing). Friction noise was still there, but any way, it was not annoying at all. Still no clunk.
TWO DAYS past.
2nd .VERY loud metal on metal noise came from front end when driving on FLAT road at ANY speed. I brought it to the dealership, and had the left front sway bar links replaced. The loud metal on metal noise went away, but..... the clunk noise appeared. Since then, the clunk has never been eliminated.

Something about the clunk.
It comes from the drivers side. Hot and dry weather makes the noise worse. Cool wet weather can improve the noise. And I don't have the strut reinforcement plate.
 
#199 ·
Hey I'm the credit card fix guy.
When its about 60 degrees my sound will show up now, but for a very short time, and its way better with the shim. Now the sound stops completely after driving about 2 to 4 minutes. It used to take 10 to 20 minutes to warm up enough. So the credit card is doing something. If it comes back, I'm going to get a set of chassis ears with wires, and trouble shoot the thing to the point of knowing exactly where the noise is coming from.
I'm not sure why nobody has done this yet. It will mean put all six mic clips in various suspicious places, record the output on 6 separate tracks on my laptop, lather rinse repeat, until its zeroed in. I can't do it till Christmas break, and I'll only have about 4 minutes at a time maximum before the sound stops. Of course I could take the credit card out.

The mics are 119 bucks at amazon.com

We could send them around to people on the forum. That would be a good data resource.
Or ford could it do it for us:)

I pretty sure that "ford customer service" will not show up here again, peddling that jive about "working on it" with engineers yadda yadda. That's total BS.
 
#205 ·
Instrumenting the car is the ONLY way to nail down the root cause so I applaud this focus (no pun intended). When I suggest that Ford isn't really interested in the big picture because of potential widespread cost and publicity, it is this very suggestion of "measurement" you are making that is THE definitive approach. At first glance, process of elimination via parts replacement makes a lot of sense - like Zillon has done extensively - but when that much work hasn't produced a marked improvement you would think Ford would want to take ANY opportunity to understand this at the engineering level. If they cared they would be all over this. Have we seen that? no.
My theory, again, is that they'd much rather limit their exposure on this by waiting for owners to register complaints by visiting dealerships. Anyone that is experiencing this issue in or around the Dearborn area should be taking this to corporate. The rest of us should be making arrangements to schedule a service department appointment; not because it will lead to an immediate remedy but because everyone needs to make this official by registering the concern - in the Ford service system. This appointment should be viewed as a minimum of inconvenience, with the expectation that you will most likely get a "everything's normal" or "no trouble found" response going into it. So be it. Doesn't matter, until it lives in the Ford service system it's not serious enough for Ford. That has been proved here on Focus Fanatic. If you aren't willing to schedule at least ONE appointment to register the concern, then the issue isn't that important to you.

Just because this thing "lives" on the interwebs in an enthusiast forum, that alone doesn't make it front & center like it needs to be. It need to be registered officially with Ford as well. Attention and bureaucratic soft peddling by Crystal and an assigned "regional" operative is a coffee filter mechanism; they'll close the case easily if strident actions are taken by the vehicle owner. I understand that their job responsibilities and limited empowerment may restrict how they handle these situations but don't let that be an impediment to getting a resolution. CSR interaction on forums isn't necessarily a bad thing and I believe it helps many people on easier issues, but in situations like this, they are VERY limited in what they can do to assist. Go to your dealership!

Corporate social media interactions a good customer response mechanism doesn't make.
It can feel all warm and fuzzy to be sure but it is not substitute for doing the "real" thing.
It's merely a facilitator and publicity function. Probably not even a union job.
It's 2012; social media response teams are in vogue and all big corporations with consumer market penetration are using them - but don't get complacent.
The more this spins in circles on the blog-o-sphere the less likely it is to get addressed.
Less talk - more action!
 
#200 ·
It was a moderate temperature tonight, about -2 degrees C, and my noises were much more subtle than normal. I at least noticed immediately leaving the parkade on campus, I didn't really pay attention the rest of the drive.
 
#201 ·
Also I should note it's the rear that's the really noisy part. The front is very mild. I suspect maybe the rear sway bar needs more grease?
 
#203 ·
I have the Steeda bar, installed back in July...?

I called back, and left a voicemail.

He then called back when I was stuck in a 3-hour lecture, and left me a voicemail.

So yes and no.
 
#204 ·
Ah. Yeah, my Steeda bar was making a hell of a racket. I removed the brackets and greased inside the bushing with lithium grease, and I also greased the outside of the bushing that contacts the bracket. Overally, it's very easy to do, you don't even need to disconnect the endlinks.

I'm at a loss now with my clunk. The only things left are a possible structural deficiency, bad subframe bushings/misalignment, or bad struts. I think I'm going to follow up on the promise I made to myself and start searching for a replacement vehicle that isn't a Ford; this is ridiculous.
 
#206 ·
I would assume Ford Corporate's attitude towards this issue is that is not a safety issue, and will not be a high priority subject.
My guess is that Ford will keep an ear on the current owners such as this thread and work at finding a fix for Job 2 MY2013 or MY2014, etc.

The gang here should give Zillion kudos for taking control and attacking the issue head on. Hoping all his hard work can find a solution
so all that are having this issue can have a nice refined ride, which is what I really like about the MK3 Focus.
 
#208 ·
Technically that's not the only EcoBoost engine, and the 2.0 L, and 3.5L have had smooth launches by comparison.

The 1.6 had been used for at least 18 months in Europe before it ever came here, so what is causing the issues all of a sudden if it wasn't happening there? Or was it happening there but no one cared to mention this?
 
#237 ·
Technically that's not the only EcoBoost engine, and the 2.0 L, and 3.5L have had smooth launches by comparison.

The 1.6 had been used for at least 18 months in Europe before it ever came here, so what is causing the issues all of a sudden if it wasn't happening there? Or was it happening there but no one cared to mention this?
Zero issues from Ford Euro 1.6 EcoBoost owners, also zero issues from Volvo 1.6 EcoBoost owners issues.
Volvo uses the 1.6 EB throughout their line up, except the XC90
To say Euro owners don't care or are not vocal if problems arise with their vehicles run is ridiculous.
BTW the 1.6 EcoBoost launched in the C-Max at the 2009 Frankfurt Auto Show
 
#221 ·
2012 focus front end thoughts

First off, thanks to zillon for all the work. I have spent a lot of time contemplating this too, and did some wireless microphone tests last summer (I'm a school teacher, that's why I have time in the summer and holidays etc).

Troubleshooting should always have a strategy to gather clues and piece the info together in a way that makes sense. With sounds its hard because sounds can be intermittent and also the car can throw the sound so it seems like its coming from a different place. Since i have a bit of time watching another teachers class i'll put down some of the things i have noticed and tried. As a way of putting clues out there. By the way, ford was pretty uninterested in my clues or ideas.

A) the quality of the sound.
its not totally metallic OR totally plasticy. It sounds like metal hitting non metal.

It can be a rattle or just the very first part of a rattle, which is like a clunk, or actually more of a "Tick". ("clunk" implies some low frequency content, this has no low frequency content so the parts that are hitting together are either small or well dampened)

when its a rattle, the vibration rate is about 15 per second without the credit card shim and about 25 per second with the shim. Tells me the shim is doin something. The shim is under the tower brace. That frequency also implies the parts are small or thin, and fairly far apart.

The sound goes away when it gets warm OR cold! when its between 55 and 65 its the worst. Think about that one.... it means that something is not touching when it cold, then lightly touching between 55 an 65, and then touching too hard to rattle above 65. (or vice-versa!). in any event it means that two things are changing a LOT in response to temperature

the time it takes to heat up is WAY longer than the time it takes to heat the engine. Without the shim it takes at least ten minutes to go away. That means its not the exhaust system. Probably not motor mounts either. If the time is changed by the shim, it means the shim is doing something. So that points to the strut tower brace. After driving twenty minutes in cool temperatures, you open the hood and the area by the tower brace is warm. There is a LOT of heat under the hood, but it takes way longer for the whole compartment to get hot than it does to get the engine and exhaust up to temperature.

Here are some things on the car that make the quality of sound like the sound my car has.....
The hood support rod sounds EXACTLY like the sound when you flick it with your finger.

The manual transmission gear selector counterweight when it bounces up and down is the exact same sound. There is about 1/8 inch vertical play.
The actual hood lid makes about the same sound when you tap around it in certain places.

the front license plate makes the sound when you flick it with your finger.

the battery cover kind of makes the sound but its too plastic of a sound.

OK, all those thing are not it. I insulated, wrapped, tightened, adjusted, all those things PLUS all of the plastic stuff in the fender wells and under the car. None of these things were it.

B) microphone results. I did the microphone thing with an actual acoustic mic with a wireless transmitter. The mic was not a clip that felt vibrations. It just picked up sound. The clips are way better for pinpointing the sound. In any event, i was able to rule out the transmission shifter (plus the fact that automatics do it too) also anything down low in the engine compartment. The mic says its high in the compartment, to the area by the hood hinge or strut tops. Its also NOT down by the spring, or under the fender. The TSB that replaced the springs was dumb on ford's part. That is throwing their money down the drain. You'd think they would not be too proud to accept a little help with this. I told my CSR that but it went nowhere.

So the acoustic mic says its about where my credit card shim is now. With the clip transducers, we should be ably to pinpoint the actual sound to and area of about the size of a dime. It will just take trials zeroing in those 6 clips closer to the clip that shows the loudest response. Over and over etc.

C) weird aspects to al of this

every time i have had the car up on a lift its either gone away completely for a few days, or come back strong for a few days. Something about lifting the car off the ground. That is a clue! a body engineer could probably nail the cause just from that right there.
sometimes stressing the chassis a certain way will make it stop right there, or maybe make it appear, but usually its a matter of hearing the sound, and then going sideways over a big speedbump makes it stop. something where the whole body twists a bit. That can also make worse. Of course if its warm there is zero sound!
When its making the sound it also feels loose up front or under the car. Something sure feels loose in the front end when its making the sound. Like multiple loose things. Its not just sound, its also feel. And it all goes away in a few minutes. So that could mean that whatever is loose is NOT up by the tower brace, but it lets that area move and the sound comes from there even though the cause might be a loose frame bolt under the car. Like something near the exhaust getting good and hot. That sure makes some amount of sense. I would think that a body engineer could read that sentence and say "duh, that sounds like....." . if only we could get some kind of expert from FORD to think about this for a couple minutes.
Ford made a TSB that replaced our springs and strut bearings, and to test it they had the tech drive in figure 8s on smooth pavement. HUH? they spent untold thousands on that TSB. At one point there were 4000 cars waiting for those TSB parts. That means that at something like $500 each job....TWO MILLION DOLLARS! Somebody slap ford up-side the head! How is that not worth spending an afternoon with some clip mics and two guys from the chassis department???? Why cant Zillon get some of that disposable petty cash?
 
#225 ·
2012 focus front end thoughts...
That’s a detail-oriented report, Lipshurt. Please send me a PM with your VIN, mileage, full name, best daytime phone number, and dealer details. I’ll send this up the line and arrange a call from your regional CSM.

...Thanks for the honesty, Cory. You have another PM from me.
Zack,

You got it.

Edit: I see your PM; expect a reply within a day or so.

Cory
 
#226 ·
sure zillon
like you i have pretty much had it with the fake BS from the regional reps and all that. They had zero interest in this, and all they could do was do the official TSB. Zero interest in my car or my list of clues.

Hello Cory (your real name?) the people in your position seem to last about 2 months, we have had "thomas" and two other females and at least one other male name, and it sounds like you get paid to pacify forum members simply to make it look like ford is "on it". We all know that when people start thinking of buying a new car, they google it, and that leads straight to the forums, where all the complaints are. I say that your position is a sales position, to keep people from being scared about what they read here. All of that is fine, but what we really need is someone form ford to work on this.
I for one would like the email address of the engineering team or high school dropout that ford has working on it. At least a website where we can fill out surveys (data! you will need that!!) and hear about possible fixes.

Anything like that would make us feel better about this. Right now it feels like ford is betting on the warranty running out before they announce a fix, or they simply have zero intent to find a fix.

Please dont lie to us, but they make you, we get it.... you are just picking up a check and towing the party line
 
#228 · (Edited)
Please dont lie to us, but they make you, we get it.... you are just picking up a check and towing the party line
We are all pretty upset by this set of circumstances but the one thing they always "teach" you in critical thinking, debate and other disciplines is this - don't undermine your own credibility.

"high school dropout that ford has working on it" does just that...undermines credibility.

Just trying to stay constructive here. [;)]
 
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