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Taking our lumps from Consumer Reports ...

12K views 107 replies 38 participants last post by  jamesy628 
#1 ·
The current Consumer Reports (3-series Bimmer on the cover) puts our Foci at the bottom of the chit list, with an ominous black circle as a prediction of the car if purchased either new or used.
For those unfamiliar with CR's symbols, this means a 'much worse than average' evaluation; in their 'best/worst' listings, the Focus is at the very bottom of the heap for 'small hatchbacks', with a reliability rating that tumbled by 170%.

This does not bode well for us now or at trade-in time.

A careful examination does explain some issues. All the other categories were either above or much above average with the exception of two: Transmission Minor, and Audio System.

The 'Transmission Minor' ('worse than average') largely seemed to address the electronic control of the tranny, altho' some of us have experienced troubles with the clutches themselves and larger problems.
The 'Audio System' ('much worse than average') took the worst of the beating, due to troubles with My Ford Touch; those of us who avoided it should be better served.

Absent the audio system rating, the car doesn't fare too badly, but for those of us who have already purchased a car, we're left holding the proverbial bag.

The magazine notes that, on page 20, "Only two years ago, Ford was Detroit's poster child for reliability. It cracked the top 10 among brands in our predicted reliability scores...Since then, reliability has dropped significantly and Ford is now next to last among the 28 brands in our survey..."

My own car has had work done on the clutches and electronic parts of the tranny, and I'm sincerely hoping that better days are coming.
Moon
 
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#38 ·
voldar, if your car is an 'appliance' to you, your call. No need to beat me up about it, but you'd be as well served with a Yugo. Because driving is one of life's little pleasures, I like having something decent to drive. And I like driving the Focus when it isn't pissing me off. Having an extensive resume of sweet-handling cars (here in Westsylvania, a straight road is an anomaly, as is a smooth one), the Focus really does have the ride/handling balance about right.

Jackson, hate to spring this on you, but a lot of people look only at CR when car shopping. I only use it as one source; in this case, a source that agrees with a number of other sources, including this forum.
Moon
 
#42 ·
Jackson, hate to spring this on you, but a lot of people look only at CR when car shopping. I only use it as one source; in this case, a source that agrees with a number of other sources, including this forum.
Moon
And those people usually buy Toyota or Honda anyway.

As far as people who are now concerned with resale value, the focus has historically not been a good resale value car. People should have taken that into account when they signed the paperwork.

Long story short, enjoy what you have, or trade it in on something else. No sense in looking for answers about resale after its too late!

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2
 
#39 · (Edited)
not to gloat but got a manual and its smoooooooth as honey. As problematic and rough as the DCT is, double the opposite and you have how much of a sweetheart the 5-spd is. F 6th gear if that development money went to improving the 5, its almost flawless. CR can suck my tool for not giving separate ratings for the manual.

Sync lady is a whore sometimes but newest MFT update and its been spot on. For the first time and very skeptically I tried finding different navi destinations via voice commands. With 2 minutes of coaching by Sync slut, it picked up the right names on the first try for each. It brings a lot to the look of the interior, huge!, has tons of capability, but is a little slow on feedback. A little patience and its not even an issue. And dont forget, its all software updates. your not stuck with the same glitchy interface, they release updates and its gotten muuuuuch better from the horror stories on here.

I bought a '12 with Sync but avoided MFT and the DCT as a result of initial CR and C/D reviews with frustrating buggy interface and chattering clutches, (before CR even gave official reliability ratings). Ford is incompetent for releasing this transmission as such, however you are just as responsible if you didnt do your homework. New MFT updates and NVH revisions for the '13, and reviews indicated improvement. Just traded up to a '13 with MFT and what do you know? not half bad, just as they said. No surprises, exellent car.

Consumer Reports never mentioned this car handles like an old school BMW yet rides and feels like a Lexus.
 
#40 ·
Ford is incompetent for releasing this transmission as such, however you are just as responsible if you didnt do your homework.
Rude. I bought my car in July of 2011, so there was no (reliability) homework to do. I suppose for me you should be saying "shame on you for buying a first year / new model car". On those grounds, I might agree.

Plus, as other users have said - some of us bought the vehicle that a lady has to use occasionally. In hindsight, teaching her stick would probably be the easier route.
 
#44 · (Edited)
I can't judge what CR has to say about the Focus because I have not read it, but be aware that CR is more of a detriment than an asset to those who want a true feel for the product they are considering. That point was brought home to me a number of years ago when they basically did a hatchet job on the profession that I've devoted my life to (I'm a veterinarian).

I don't mind that they are critical of some of the things they review - nothing in life is above criticism, whether it be my profession, automobiles, or toasters. But the criticism should be fair and based on fact. CR's "reports" are researched and written by nonprofessionals going by the opinions of other nonprofessionals. Not that that in itself is so bad, but there should also be some real research involved and they should incorporate more unbiased professional input. That's what journalism is all about. In the case of the Focus, I understand that they did not even evaluate the basic car - they evaluated the car with optional equipment (MFT and DCT). I know that these options are in most Foci sold and so there is legitimate reason for taking that into account, but comparing DCT cars and standard automatic transmission cars is comparing apples and oranges. At least some (NOT all) of the consumer complaints about the DCT have come from car buyers who did not understand what they were buying - and Ford can be legitimately criticized in that regard as well. CR also does not take into consideration any improvements which may or may not have been accomplished since the early production run.

There is no scientific method to their "science". Nor do they intend there to be. They are only interested in generating lists, because that is what consumers want. But understand that their lists are steaming piles of subjective crap.

There are legitimate criticisms of the Focus, particularly in regards to the MFT and DCT technologies, and legitimate criticisms of how Ford has handled the introduction of the technologies into their vehicles. Do a little digging and understand all of the pros and cons, and then make up your mind. But don't waste your time on reading a CR "report". It will just be 30 minutes of your life that you'll never get back.
 
#50 ·
I can't judge what CR has to say about the Focus because I have not read it, but be aware that CR is more of a detriment than an asset to those who want a true feel for the product they are considering. That point was brought home to me a number of years ago when they basically did a hatchet job on the profession that I've devoted my life to (I'm a veterinarian).

I don't mind that they are critical of some of the things they review - nothing in life is above criticism, whether it be my profession, automobiles, or toasters. But the criticism should be fair and based on fact. CR's "reports" are researched and written by nonprofessionals going by the opinions of other nonprofessionals. Not that that in itself is so bad, but there should also be some real research involved and they should incorporate more unbiased professional input. That's what journalism is all about. In the case of the Focus, I understand that they did not even evaluate the basic car - they evaluated the car with optional equipment (MFT and DCT). I know that these options are in most Foci sold and so there is legitimate reason for taking that into account, but comparing DCT cars and standard automatic transition cars is comparing apples and oranges. At least some (NOT all) of the consumer complaints about the DCT have come from car buyers who did not understand what they were buying - and Ford can be legitimately criticized in that regard as well. CR also does not take into consideration any improvements which may or may not have been accomplished since the early production run.

There is no scientific method to their "science". Nor do they intend there to be. They are only interested in generating lists, because that is what consumers want. But understand that their lists are steaming piles of subjective crap.There are legitimate criticisms of the Focus, particularly in regards to the MFT and DCT technologies, and legitimate criticisms of how Ford has handled the introduction of the technologies into their vehicles. Do a little digging and understand all of the pros and cons, and then make up your mind. But don't waste your time on reading a CR "report". It will just be 30 minutes of your life that you'll never get back.

Great post, probably the best post in this thread! While there have been some great discussions both in this thread and many others on the subject of MFT and DCT, most of it has been blown out of proportion (with some exceptions of course, and some members here having to "fight" with bad dealerships, which futher exacerbates the problems). But, your view of CR and its overly subjective reviews is spot on. I've noticed that for years..... I guess a LOT of people here forget the meaning of the title, "Consumer Reports"... its simply that, nothing more. Just a clearing house of lists compiled by regular folk, many of whom don't even own the product, but, took the time to fill out a vague questionaire on it because they were bored. When you take CR to task on why thier ratings can change drastically from one review period to the next, they will simply state "we are NOT resonsible for the quality or accuracy of the actual reviews, will simply compile the data and put it out in an easy to read and interpret format" .... I guess you should certainly take that with a heavy "grain of salt" then... LOL.
I, myself would much rather talk to actual owners who have driven the car for a while and take the "objective" approach to making a fair assesment. Was the DCT perfect and without issue, no, in a lot of cases, certainly not. Has software updates and shaft seal replacement fixed these issues, in most cases, yes. Certainly in mine anyway. Is MFT really as bad as some would have you believe? NO, and the latest 3.5.1 has been a major improvement, and even prior to that update, I still enjoyed MFT and preferred it over any other infotainment system in prior cars before it... it still "wows" new passengers in my car everytime. Has it affected resale value to the detriment? Some will say yes, I haven't found that, at least in my area. A quick cursory search of dealerships and online ads certainly support a very strong resale of MKIII Focus, at least on par with other brands in its segment.

Thanks for that post DrDab! [thumb]
 
#46 ·
Couple quick reactions to previous posters...
-Resale, Honda, Ford...I have had great luck with Honda products, actually thought seriously about a Civic, but it handled like a baby Buick, wallowy and sloppy. (Apparently Honda has belatedly recognized the problem and is recalibrating suspensions for this year.) I liked how the Ford drove, and supporting a domestic manufacturer for the first time in a long time seemed like the right thing to do, especially with a stepdad who had a career in Detroit and the lousy domestic economy. Too, the Focus got great reviews for its ride/handling balance, something that is absolutely true.
-Early reviews of the DCT...did indicate some roughness; however, the severity of the problem was not made clear; perhaps the tester's cars did not misbehave in this regard. The shuddering thing was not present in my car when it was new; first time it was noticed was in March. The automated manual in VW products has a great reputation, and the idea of the performance and efficiency of a manual in a vehicle my women could drive sounded (conceptually) like a great idea. It is a great idea.
There appear to be two distinct problems with the tranny; some mechanical (clutches)and some electronic. Ford seems to be hoping that software updates will solve most of the problems.
-Sync issues...the Bluetooth aspect has always worked well for me, but the clockspring problems were responsible for the issues with the steering column controls. Since the clockspring was replaced, the system has gone back to what it was doing when the car was turned off, and thus far it hasn't done the 'directory full' thing that requires pulling a fuse to reboot the system.
223, you may have the clockspring problem; do your steering wheel controls sometimes do strange things?
Moon
 
#49 ·
I used to work as a tour rep taking a group of students and regular customers to places like Cancun, Cuba and Dominican Republic. The groups ranged from 100 to 500 in size, and my job was to make sure they boarded the plane, checked in to the hotel and fix any issues that they presented. 99% of the people had a blast and thanked me for making their trip the best they ever had, however, there was always about 10 people on average that had a miserable time. They complained about the room, they complained about the food, they complained that there was not enough entertainment, they even complained about me not being able to covert their Canadian money to U.S. currency. The point of this story is, while most of us are super happy with our cars (myself included), there is always going to be others who are disappointed. Do a search and type Civic Sucks, Camry Sucks, etc and you will find a bunch of people not happy with their choice.

http://myhondacivicsucks.blogspot.ca/
 
#51 ·
This is the same magazine that TRASHED the iphone 4 /4s. While it is true that there is a subset of folks here who have had issues with the DCT and MFT, I think CR needs to do a better job with their evaluations.

For example, based on the posts that I have read on this board, it appears that a majority of the cars with DCT problems were some of the earlier build cars.
 
#52 ·
I'm guessing if CR gave the Focus a glowing rating ... that most here would be saying ... "see ... even CR, whose data comes from ACTUAL OWNERS, says our cars are great ... I love CR ....", but since CR identified two OBVIOUS trouble spots (that every other reviewer has as well) and gave the car a black circle ... they now suck. I don't know of ONE publication that gave the DCT or MFT good reviews .... NOT ONE. If you do ... LINK IT here please.

From my experience, looking back on the last 20 years or so of my car ownership, and comparing the data in CR vs my personal experience .... their data has been dead on perfect in terms of trouble areas, and approximately when they occur.

Regarding the veterinarian's comments ... I wholeheartedly agree with CR on that as well ... I've switched vets twice in the last 5 years for the exact reasons that they explain. Maybe YOU don't run your business that way, but MOST VETS DO. Rather than whine about the veterinary review, the veterinary association would be better served changing their practices to giving reasonable animal care, and not employ the totally unnecessary cash-sucking practices that many vets employ.

REV
 
#53 ·
There's too much bickering and parsing of words going on for my taste. In summation here's my take on it. As a person who's made a career of managing investments let me just say, cars in general, are not considered "investments". They are in fact a depreciating asset. There are exceptions to every rule, even with regard to investments. I should point out that investment grade automobiles certainly exist, but they are limited generally to exotic cars, classic or antiques. An example....a few years back a 1961 Ferrari 250GT California hit an all time high selling price of $10.9 Million dollars. Obviously there are other investment grade cars that occassionaly hit the market, just as an expensive painting by Renoir, Monet, Van Gogh, etc. might occasionally turn up at a Christies or Sotheby's auction. So what have we learned? Yes, cars can be an investment, but in the context of what this forum is dedicated to, the Ford Focus; it does not qualify as an investment... traditionally speaking. People often use the term investment in a very generic sense and that's about as close to investment grade that the Focus will ever come.

Having said all that, the point about minimizing depreciation isn't lost on me. The object is to retain as much value as possible, while at the same time getting the use out of the car. I'd also like to point out that even a 5 year old living room sofa has some value. Same is true with cars. We use them, they depreciate and eventually we replace them. Last I checked my Focus doesn't wash my clothes, clean my dishes or keep my perishable food from spoiling, so I stop short of referring to it as an appliance.
 
#57 ·
Moon, for your sake, I hope Ford successfully resolves all of your car issues. I think everyone would agree that would be the best possible outcome out of what I know is a very frustrating, inconvenient, not to mention time consuming ordeal. I went through the same thing about 12 years ago myself with a brand new car. I had problems from the very first day...the first 15 miles of ownership if I recall correctly. Long story short I tried and tried and tried and despite the fact that the car spent more time at the dealer for repair than in my own garage, the issues were never resolved. Eventually I filed a lemon law claim and I got all of my money back, so beleive me, I completely understand what you're going through.
 
#58 ·
I have to agree with Rev. Aside from the two most bitched about issues on this forum (DCT & MFT) the MK3 is a solid piece. Yea you get some first year model issues with trim and other gremlins but that has got to be expected to some degree. To those who are getting done wrong by Ford not righting what they should you have my sympathies 100%, I've been through it (other manufacturer) and it frustrates you to no end. I read the article from C/D I believe that recommended the SE sport with the manual to sidestep the DCT. I read about the troubles with MFT on this forum and optioned to not have it. I wish my AC was colder and my struts didn't clunk but I love driving my car regardless. My ole lady has a 2010 Fit and they said its good on most all things but its slow. Well they got it right. I don't get why so many people get up in arms about what somebody else has to say about the car.
 
#62 ·
It seems like the average opinion here is to ONLY use Consumer reports or to NEVER use Consumer Reports. How about reading their reviews and looking at the rating history for the car you have in mind and mixing that in with reading reviews from other sources (both consumer reviews and editorial reviews) and going on test drives? Also, reliability data from Consumer Reports doesn't do much good when a car has only been out a year or two. Their is a big difference between projected reliability and actual reliability - that's why I only use CR when I'm looking at used vehicles several years old.

Also, when I was looking for a new Focus, I predicted that the DCT and MFT would just be a pain. I mean come one, we're talking about an automatic transmission and an infotainment system - two of the more pointless things ever put in to cars, especially when I am blessed with four functioning limbs, adequate physical coordination, and a smart phone.
 
#64 ·
I bought a 2012 Focus S in Aug 2011. It had no options. 5 speed stick. Changed Tires at 25000 miles to CR'S top rated tires. Much better than stock.
At the end of November I had a Certificate from Ford for $500, Got a $500 rebate for being a Focus owner, Got $2000 customer cash and a $350 MFT rebate. Paid $250 over invoice minus $3395 Rebates for a Loaded SE. I have the newest version on MFT and Navigation with the A4 card. Works well but there is a learning curve. I have the 5 Spd stick again. Years ago Consumer Reports used to rate automatics and manuals transmissons. The manal 5 speed is one of the best out there. The Focus is a great car. Ford needs to do what Honda did. Fix the problems fast. As for resale, I had 27000 miles in 17 months and got $4000 less than I paid.
 
#71 ·
I was a noob on this board 2 weeks before I bought my Focus back in May and within the first 10 minutes I was registered I knew to shy away from the DCT but I was sure I wanted a 5 speed anyway but I test drove two DCTs and they aren't a replacement for manual tranny no matter how much the DCT owners decry "it's a manual but not a traditional one you're used to". ;')
 
#74 ·
This problem is C&d,Motor Trend,Automobile,Road&Track and more than a few on-line sites aren't impressed with the DCT and report issues with them on their long term review cars and I'm sure behind closed doors Ford knows the problems are bigger than they expected.
Of course the problem is still only going to affect a certain percentage of cars but that number seems to be higher than acceptable and buying a DCT is a bit like gambling with bad odds.
 
#75 ·
I sure hope Ford figures this out soon and doesn't decide to just go with a conventional automatic like the Focus' Escape and Fusion siblings. If we think our resale value is low now, imagine what it would be with an orphaned transmission?

My DCT is behaving (barely) OK but I'm not recommending a DCT - equipped Focus to anyone. As you say, it's still a gamble...
 
#83 ·
The DCT being unreliable is more than enough trouble. It is a major part of the vehicle, without it working correctly, you aren't getting far.

That is what all you focus supporters seem to be overlooking. It is not something insignificant like MFT being buggy. If the transmission doesn't work, you're screwed. This is a brand new car...we should not be having these issues. Like I have stated before, my DCT actually works smoothly, but I am holding my breath waiting for the seals to fail.
 
#85 ·
That is what all you focus supporters seem to be overlooking. It is not something insignificant like MFT being buggy. If the transmission doesn't work, you're screwed. This is a brand new car...we should not be having these issues. Like I have stated before, my DCT actually works smoothly, but I am holding my breath waiting for the seals to fail.
Feel free to disagree with any of the following:

1) The main issues are clutch engagement (shudder) and clutch rattling noise (which I believe is harmless).

2) IMO, the real problem is service. Many DCT's have been reported to work well so it means (in theory) that they are all capable of working well. Older Focuses that have clutch problems should have the seals and clutch assembly replaced.

3) The transmission itself (the "gearbox") seems to be very reliable.

4) The current firmware may need some tweaks (for clutch engagement and shift points) but is not bad overall.
 
#87 ·
When I got the car, MFT was a joke. It's great now and I love the stock sound system. My only complaint with the clutch is that dealers are overlooking serious issues. I think the transmissions are solid, but the version A clutch had legitimate problems.
 
#91 ·
Chevy Cruze scored well overall but I believe reliability was average.
The Mazda3 scored alright but reliability was above average.

I think all the cars in this class are reliable except the Focus and Dart due to the DCTs. Any car with a DCT is trouble unless that specific transmission has been out for a while. Look at VW, they had such issues for a long time with the DCTs. after almost a decade they have come around.

correct me if I'm wrong
 
#92 ·
Perhaps I'll post more in another thread, but, ironically, Car and Driver named the Focus to its 10-Best list (for reasons we all know very well) but also cited the automated manual as a dud, and had less than kind words for MFT elsewhere in the magazine.
Maybe that's what is really maddening about the car...it has so many great features that owners really love...in many ways it feels like a more expensive car (even the midmarket SE loaner felt good)...but then there are the relentless problems in certain areas. Arghhh.
Moon
 
#98 ·
Very often, mine acts like a PC that's suffering from 'processor hang'. After idling for several minutes in the driveway listening to Sirius, I touched the button to change to FM. Nothing. I touched it 4 more times. Nothing. About 15 seconds later, I hear 5 'bongs' and the FM button toggled between FM1, FM2, & FM3 four times before finally stopping. It does the same thing when I'm on the home screen and touch the button to bring the entertainment section to full screen. Is this an indicator that I need an update, or is it just a POS slow processor? Build date: 5/2012.
 
#105 ·
The thing is, a lot of people are relating the negativity to just Consumer Reports...but in reality many of the major reviewers are saying that the DCT is junk. These are people that have reviewed more DCTs than anyone on this forum (including me...and I've driven 20-30), and have driven multiple dry-clutch DCTs, as well.

Don't you think some of those reviewers would praise the DCT if it acted like it should?
 
#107 ·
The thing is, a lot of people are relating the negativity to just Consumer Reports...but in reality many of the major reviewers are saying that the DCT is junk.
Which "version" of the DCT would they be referring to?

The current DCT firmware is quite different from that of the early production Focuses. Of course there have been some mechanical changes as well.

Do you have any quotes (from any major magazine) stating that the 2013 MY transmission is "junk"?
 
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