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No 4th gear

20K views 29 replies 7 participants last post by  amc49 
#1 ·
I rebuilt the transmission in my girlfriends 02 Mazda Protege 5. It's the same trans as a focus 4f27e with some slight differences. It has 80k on it and lost 3rd and 4th gear. Her mechanic pulled only a slipping code and the a/t light never came on. He said it would need a rebuild costing $2k+.

I decided to do the work myself since I have experience with older A/Ts. Using the ATSG 4f27e manual and the factory Mazda manual, I pulled it apart and all the soft parts looked good with maybe a slight glaze on the clutches. Absolutely no signs of any problems besides very black fluid.

I rebuilt it with a full soft parts kit and rebuilt t/c. All the clearances were within spec. It now runs fine in 1st -3rd but when it shifts into 4th it holds for a second and then slips and revs like its in neutral. It shifts fine back down into 3rd no problem.

Based on the Trans go manual they suggest this is likely a bad solenoid and to switch the 4th gear and lockup solenoid. I did this with no change to the 4th gear problem. My scanner picks up no codes and during the rebuild the solenoids all ohm'd perfectly.

My next step would be to drop $200 on new solenoids but would rather not throw parts at it. I don't have a line pressure gauge but that may be my next step instead of the solenoids.


Anyone have any ideas?
 
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#3 ·
Thanks for your input. I went ahead and ordered a remaned valve body with solenoids on eBay. It ran $189 shipped which is only $10 more than the solenoids by themselves.

I'll keep this thread updated and if anyone has any more input it would be greatly appreciated!
 
#8 ·
I inspected the rear cover and the ring seat looked fine, replaced the rings that came with the kit. I did not measure the ring seats so i cant confirm there was no wear. The molded piston in the drum looked good along with all of the other pistons.

Manually shifting has the same problem, no 4th. Not sure how the focus manually shifts but on the protege you move the shifter to the manual position and forward for down band backwards for up. This is all electronic and not linkage shifting.

I didnt have a band select guage so i reused the bolt and adjusted it by feeling the band tension with the valve body removed and welding the tip of the bolt to make it longer. I had to add 1/16" to get the tension right.

I was guessing pressure loss too. Any ideas on trouble shooting that?

I was hoping i could pull the cover by tilting the trans down. Thanks for confirming that
 
#11 ·
What LETTER solenoid did you change? Should be C (or possibly A if manual first not working right).

Solenoids can stick either open or closed and won't show on ohms test.

If band then second would be doing it too. Band is for 2 and 4.
 
#12 ·
I swapped the A & B solenoids (D & E on mazda) no change but i guees its possible theyre both bad since i cant test lockup. Hoping the valve body will fix the issue. I have a pressure tester on order.

Ill keep this thread updated as I trouble shoot the problem.
 
#13 ·
Update on the transmission. I installed the new valve body and solenoids and there is no change in fourth gear, it engages but slips as soon as there is a little load added to it. One thing i have also noticed is that the third gear shift is soft and it will slip a little bit before engaging. The two must be related and the only thing they share is the direct clutch housing. I inspected it closly during the rebuild and everything checked out and was within spec. I still dont have a preasure guage so i may give up and take it to a trans shop.

Any ideas?
 
#15 ·
Driver side end cover, it supplies the pressure to direct clutch, it wears at the seal ring lands and bushing and leaks off direct and reverse pressure. Common problem on these. Thinking it can be R&Red without yanking trans.............
 
#17 ·
Finally got the rear cover pulled and it is badly worn and definately will be replaced. One tech article says to replace the direct and reverse clutch housings when this failure has occured. The direct housing looks ok to me on the seal surface but its hard to tell without a bore guage and specs. I see no reason why the reverse housing should be replaced.

Any thoughts?
 
#18 ·
Whatever ran against the worn surfaces needs fixing, be it bushing or seal rings. Bushings can look fantastic and be dead, they are softer than steel parts. Generally if you change one surface, the other running against it gets changed too. You can often change bushing only and not housing, but you need to be able to install bushing straight and with no damage.
 
#19 ·
Thanks for your input amc. Ill price out all the parts and see if its worth it. I think im mainly inclined to just replace the direct housing since that is where the wear ocurred. The reverse housing bushing will ride on the new cover but im hoping it will be fine.
 
#20 ·
Final update (hopefully)! Installed the new rear cover and the trans works great.

I did not replace the the direct or reverse housing since there was no play in either when installed on the new cover. Ford wants over $300 for new so I decided I inspect them closely and run them.

Vautotrans on ebay sells the rear cover new with a fitting for the Mazda cooler for $75 + shipping incase anyone else runs across this problem.

Biggest bummer of all of this is that I could have saved alot of time and $$$ and just swapped in a new cover. Thankfully we did not pay a mechanic a few $K for this! All said & done we have about $800 in parts including new motor mounts, fluids etc... I probably have about 40+ hours into it.

Hopefully if anyone else experiences a sudden complete loss of 3rd and 4th gear in their 4f27E of Fn4a-el they can check this before pulling the trans completely and rebuilding it.

Thanks for all of your help!
 
#21 · (Edited)
Luck...........you should probably know that Ford strongly recommends the trans cooler be changed when this type of wear occurs, often the cooler stops up and the return to back of the end cover then slows down to a trickle to wear the cover out. The cooler is supposedly not cleanable, the design of the inside of tubes stops it from flushing clean of trash settled in it.
 
#22 ·
Thanks amc, i did read about that in one of the ford manuals. The mazda cooler looks a bit different than the ford cooler, but is probably similar internally. The mazda manual says to flush the cooler so I flushed it backwards and forward with mineral spirits and compressed air and the flow was normal. I will research the mazda cooler more and price out a replacement.

Thanks again for all of your help!
 
#23 ·
There you go. Just putting it out there. I would have done same thing, if flow seems good enough the old one would most likely be going right back on car. I would have soaked it for a week in acetone, if that doesn't break trash loose nothing will or none there. Them factory boys don't care about recouping parts since they don't get advantage from it. I save/reuse every part I can. I blew up a CD4E on a Contour, common on them with the sorry engineering, one drive shell I reused looked like a bomb went off inside it (actually did in a way), it works fine some 6 years later. If you saw that part you'd laugh....
 
#24 ·
Dealers love throwing new parts at cars. It saves them time and makes them money.

I've learned over the years that alot of the parts I've replaced bought me little more than piece of mind over re-using the old parts with a thorough cleaning and inspection. Its amazing the service life you can get out of internal parts/ bearings even when non-critical areas are damaged. Theres a certain satisfaction i get out of reusing old parts and saving $$$.

Thanks again for all if your help!
 
#26 ·
I know this thread is a little old, But I have a 2000 Focus ZX3 It has about he same issue. It will shift 1st and 2nd fine but when it tries to go from 2nd to 3rd it will just go from 2nd to neutral and it revs up and doesnt go anywhere. 1st and 2nd work great no slippage.

I was wandering if anybody could link me to the part he replaced or show me a pic. Id like to just replace that if its the issue.

also I have the DOHC and trans code is PVAC XS4P-DF
 
#27 ·
Just thought I would update this thread. The trans has about 30k more miles on the it with the only problem being a leaking axle seal.

I've had a few PM's asking for a part number. I cannot find one readily but if you sear on Ebay for "fn4ael rear cover" or "4f27e rear cover" there should be lots to chose from. Make sure you get one from a focus with the pressed on steel sleeve and not just machined into the aluminum.
 
#28 ·
The cover will replace half the wear but the other parts that run with it need checking as well. All about stabilizing the rotating assembly there and tight seals to seal up well. Change just seals or cover and the parts tilting still make a leak from seal lip deflection. The OP checked for that and lucked out, some others won't.
 
#29 ·
Very true. When you pull the cover its easy to pull the entire drum out and check it while you there. With the Mazda cover that has the aluminum seal surface on the rear cover, it will wear long before the other parts. If you are having this problem on a focus with the steel ring, then you definitely will need to inspect all of the parts closely.

THANKS AMC for your help. We all appreciate it!
 
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