Focus Fanatics Forum banner

Ok Listen up....

3K views 32 replies 8 participants last post by  Incognito27 
#1 ·
.... All you mechanics, or wonderful folks who know the Zetec engine inside and out , please speak up , because i have a problem , and i need some insight. Unless you know the Zetec Engine inside out like the back of your hand...(assuming its not a fake had) please post up , when i get a few people in here , i will pose the problem for you to think about.
 
#3 ·
DPFE Sensor replaced , EGR replaced , VOltages checked , all fine.

Car Loses power , inttermitently between 1500 and 2500 RPM , and stays that way until randomly it decides to work. Brake also gets hard , so basically booster is pumped up . That tells me vaccum issue. However i looked at as many vaccum hoses as i could and no issues found.

Engine is fine , car tries to rev past it all , and the ECU tries to offset the lack of power when i hit the gas.

Now the confusing part, This does not happen all the time. maybe 75% of the time. sometimes its fine , others it takes me going around the block 3 times for it to decide to work fine , other days when i get to the end of my street its fine. completly random

what are your thoughts and suggestions. If i have done it will say i have. If i haven't i will try to.

Thanks in advance for any ANY help whatsoever
 
#4 ·
Does it feel like its breaking up? Maybe you've got a bad coil, or the connectors on the pig tail for the coil is breaking down. Another option, if you honestly think its vacuum, is having a smoke test done, or checking with a can of carb cleaner. Just spray the carb cleaner around the vacuum hoses, if you hear the engine change, you've found your leak.
 
#5 ·
Define breaking up

Wouldn`t a bad coil give a misfire which would give me some indication when i connect to the ECU

I looked at the connections on the coil they look fine.

Yes i just replaced the EGR valve with a known working used one from a friend. The old one was rusted and had holes in it from rusting.

When i looked at all the hoses behind the engine around the intake , and on the firewall everything looked good , only two things seemed out of place, 1 when i checked the hoses connecting to the DPFE sensor , one had moisture in it. and when i blew in it , there was no resistance in the air , so unless it was a bottomless pit for me to blow in , the air i blew in went out somewhere just as fast.

Not sure if that means anything.

i will have to do the carb cleaner test as budget is tight atm.
 
#6 ·
One of the DPFE hoses IS a bottomless pit, you are simply blowing into the exhaust pipe. It is normal to have droplets of water in the hose. Coils often go bad to miss and show nothing on DTC until really bad. I've changed on both of mine and no codes at all. If the newer EGR valve is known to not leak when off then simply unplug vacuum to it and plug the hose, that takes EGR out as a problem.
 
#8 ·
It's not rocket science.

Take vacuum hose off the EGR valve itself and plug the hose. Now EGR does not work at all so it can't mess up your stuff. The valve must be capable of fully closing though or you have a vacuum leak.
 
#14 ·
Being a prick isn't rocket science either. Nor is trying to explain something yourself when there's a better source.

@OP: He's saying to remove the EGR valve from circulation.
In other words, follow this simple guide (this is for the DPFE sensor; The EGR valve is the large silver disc; Same concept):
- http://www.focushacks.com/mod/DPFE_Sensor_and_EGR_Information

If it's a vacuum leak: You can also use an open source of fuel (propane lighter, gas container with vapors escaping, etc).
If you pass over a vacuum, and it sucks it into the engine, you'll hear the engine rev up.


its all good , i am just pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. I will try the EGR hose thing on it and see if it makes a difference. ill use a golf tee to clog it and tape and give it a drive. to see if it makes a difference.
If you're going to try and remove the EGR valve from circulation, you might as well try to remove the DPFE sensor from circulation as well.
From everything I've read, there's a very little performance gain from it, at the cost of fuel (MPG). With one method, you have to deal with staring at the MIL.
 
#12 ·
its all good , i am just pulling my hair out trying to figure this out. I will try the EGR hose thing on it and see if it makes a difference. ill use a golf tee to clog it and tape and give it a drive. to see if it makes a difference.
 
#16 ·
id rather not do a EGR delete , i will for testing purposes to see if its my EGR system or not , but emissions testing here is pretty strict so i won`t delete it. But i will try the above mentioned things and see if i get any change.

The issue is far to random for me to wrap my mind around it. in the past when a vaccum hose has a break it in or it is collapsed it tends to stay that way and have a constant. However due to the brake hardening up i still go back to the vaccum as its all vaccum based.
 
#21 ·
Random problems are the worst. As they mentioned, that's one way to rule out the egr. Seems like an ignition issue to me. Either the coil itself or the connector. Sometimes it looks fine but there may be an intermittent connection.

brakes will get hard as the engine is either under load (open throttle) or shuts off... Either way it means there's no vacuum.
 
#23 ·
Well, when are you applying the brakes? at idle? how bad is the engine actually cutting out between that RPM range?

Try this on a car that works right..... step on the gas and pump the brakes. You'll notice it get hard. This is you losing your vacuum reserve and the inability to create more vacuum because the throttle plate is open.
 
#24 ·
If I hit the accelerator from a dead stop engine rpms go until about 2000 then engine starts to bog, at the same time brakes get hard as if I was pumping then when the car is turned off. If I tap the brake while I am moving it releives the pressure on the brake pedal and I can hit the accelerator again until it hits about 2000 rpms again then the brakes harden and engine bogs.

That is what is happening.
 
#25 ·
so, you're braking while accelerating? or by dead stop do you mean you're parked (auto or manual) and just revving it, and once it gets around that range it just starts to bog.... and you're pressing the brake down during the whole thing?
 
#27 ·
I have to tap the brake after accelerating for a few seconds because the brake starts to harden , so i tap it , then the pressure goes away , then i can try an accelerate again , and so on. The engine still bogs at 2000 rpm during all this. then out of the blue it will work fine. no issues , and randomly and inttermittenly will work fine . car is automatic

OK first: tune up, and while you're at it replace your brake booster check valve. That's what you say when you get there to the parts store. They will know what it is, it's a generic part. You can pull yours off if you want- it's the 90 degree connector where the brake booster hose hits the booster.

1) Plugs
2) Plug wires
3) Air filter
4) Fuel filter
5) PCV check.
6) MAF cleaning
7) TB cleaning

Now what Mike is referring to is the common problem we have with ignition coil power wires- the ones that plug in through a connector on the bottom of the coil. Pull on the wires individually to see if any come out of the connector. Then, if one does, replace the connector with a part from the Ford Dealer. If the wires don't come off, trace that wiring down and make sure there is no physical damage to it. Sometimes this is difficult because physical damage- like wires melting on the EGR feed tube- is ALWAYS where it is difficult to see without reaching down in there and twisting the loom around. Definitely double check wiring in areas around hot exhaust stuff- including that EGR feed tube.

BTW, how do you know your EGR is working? Here's how to test an EGR valve- after you've cleaned it. Get where you can see the valve, put a hose on the other end, then suck lightly- about as much breath as it takes to fill up one cheek will operate the EGR valve. If it doesn't move, or you don't feel resistance to your vacuum- then it fails.
Tune up has been done , plugs , wires , air filter , fuel filter maf cleaning and TB cleaning. PCV is the only thing i did not do.

I will have a look at the coil wireing and see if i can trace any melting or damage.

When i had the mechanic change it he tested it with a vaccum gauge, or whatever he did to make sure he wasn`t installing a bad part.


So since we got 25cm of snow today i will probably not get a chance to check anything until atleast i shovel most of my snow. but i will report back once i have check the above things and let you know.
 
#26 ·
OK first: tune up, and while you're at it replace your brake booster check valve. That's what you say when you get there to the parts store. They will know what it is, it's a generic part. You can pull yours off if you want- it's the 90 degree connector where the brake booster hose hits the booster.

1) Plugs
2) Plug wires
3) Air filter
4) Fuel filter
5) PCV check.
6) MAF cleaning
7) TB cleaning

Now what Mike is referring to is the common problem we have with ignition coil power wires- the ones that plug in through a connector on the bottom of the coil. Pull on the wires individually to see if any come out of the connector. Then, if one does, replace the connector with a part from the Ford Dealer. If the wires don't come off, trace that wiring down and make sure there is no physical damage to it. Sometimes this is difficult because physical damage- like wires melting on the EGR feed tube- is ALWAYS where it is difficult to see without reaching down in there and twisting the loom around. Definitely double check wiring in areas around hot exhaust stuff- including that EGR feed tube.

BTW, how do you know your EGR is working? Here's how to test an EGR valve- after you've cleaned it. Get where you can see the valve, put a hose on the other end, then suck lightly- about as much breath as it takes to fill up one cheek will operate the EGR valve. If it doesn't move, or you don't feel resistance to your vacuum- then it fails.
 
#30 ·
So car is in the shop , and the mechanic called me and he test drove it and did not bog , but he did throw his computer on and it showed history of the Cylinder head temp senor was out of range. He also told me this can still cause the bogging. However anywhere i have seen and read issue with this sensor are due to temperature ranges not bogging.

Anyone have any experience with the sensor to confirm or deny that it can cause bogging


Thanks
 
#31 ·
I don't think it's sensor, although they commonly go bad.

Have you POSITIVELY checked or changed the PCV hose where it attaches at the BACK BOTTOM of the intake?? Don't say you've 'checked it' if you haven't crawled under the car, just screwing yourself. Look at the last 3-4 inches before the hose goes into the intake and FEEL it, if like bubblegum you need new hose. The most common vacuum leak on these cars.

To check the brake booster check valve. Start motor up, let it warm at idle. Shut motor off and then within 5 seconds step on brake pedal ONE TIME, see if you have soft pedal then. Bend close and listen for a short soft hissing sound too. If check valve is working, you will get soft pedal up to 2 or 3 pushes and the hiss those 2-3 times, then it will get hard and the hiss stops. If hard the very first time you push it and no hiss then check valve or booster or hose is bad.
 
#32 ·
i have checked the PCV hose , However it was just by feel as its a pain to get at. come spring i will have another look at it. The Booster check valve i will try what you mentioned and go from there.

Thanks


PS today is a cold day so i am gonna see if the car bogs today.
 
#33 ·
so it seems it has to do with cold weather.... cause when it is above 0 its seems to be fine , but under zero it seems to have a problem everytime i start it up. Only way around it is to turn off stat again and barely push gas until it hits second gear then i can give her like i normally do.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top