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Official Winter Tires Thread: Please post any winter questions here!

74K views 202 replies 82 participants last post by  Mazdamike0831 
#1 · (Edited)
So, first off let's learn or relearn the facts about winter tires.

How do winter tires work?

Here are a few pictures to illustrate the mechanics involved in winter traction.

If you look closely at a road surface you can tell that it is really not that smooth as represented by the model in this picture:



With the high grip rubber compound used in your summer performance tires the contact area conforms to the irregular surface of the road:



That amount of contact can generate a tremendous amount of traction in the summer time but what if the road in snow covered?

That brings us to the question, what makes a tire a good winter tire? The answer is a three part puzzle and without all three parts traction will be compromised.

Let's look at the first part of the puzzle; tread design.

This picture shows a winter tire tread design which, as you can clearly see, utilizes a large number of sipes:



When the road gets snow covered the tire is no longer able to conform to the surface.



The siping allows the tread elements to flex under stress create aggressive "biting edges" when braking, cornering or accelerating.



Part two of our three piece traction puzzle is tread depth.

While deep snow and ice-covered roads are two of the most challenging conditions North American drivers will face, tire developments during the last decade have noticeably advanced wintertime mobility. The technological revolution of dedicated winter tires for drivers in the snowbelt, and the continuing evolution of all-season tires for drivers living on its periphery characteristically offer more grip in snow and on ice than ever before.

However the basics of delivering traction and handling in snow and on ice remain unchanged. Tires must combine three fundamental features to deliver good wintertime performance, including an appropriate tread design, pliable tread compound and sufficient tread depth. If any one of these fundamental features is absent then the other two, regardless of their ability, cannot deliver the desired results. Since engineers can develop cutting-edge tread designs and chemists can develop advanced rubber compounds, it is often the remaining tread depth that is the variable in determining wintertime performance.

In most parts of the world, tires are considered to be legally worn out when they reach "2/32" (approximately 1.6mm) of remaining tread depth. U.S. law requires tires to have easy-to-see Tread Wear Indicator bars running from one side of their tread design to the other when the tire's tread has worn down to the minimum legal limit of 2/32 inch.

However in spite of the legal minimums, Tire Rack recommends that drivers expecting to experience wet conditions consider replacing their tires when they reach 4/32" of remaining tread depth. Tire Rack's tests have shown how shallow treads reduce wet braking traction and increase stopping distances. (See this video).

Tire Rack also recommends that drivers expecting to encounter snow-covered roads consider replacing their tires when they reach approximately 6/32" of remaining tread depth to maintain good mobility. Tires need more tread depth in wintry conditions to compress snow in their grooves and release it as they roll. If there isn't sufficient tread depth, the "bites" of snow that can be processed on each tire revolution will be reduced to "nibbles," and the vehicle's traction and mobility in snow will be reduced.



The third and final part of the puzzle is the rubber compound used. Rubber compounds vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer but, the task is the same so, you will see similarities between the products. They all typically use compounds which utilize materials designed to remain flexible at cold temps in addition to traction enhancements from silica and other materials which add more bite on ice.

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Now, for the next step ... types of winter tires

There are basically three different types of winter tires

#1.) Performance Winter

You want enhanced dry road handling from your winter tires and are willing to trade some snow and ice traction to get it.

Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these are higher speed rated tires that are designed to suit winter driving on European highways. They are available in many of the low profile sizes used as Original Equipment on sporty imported and domestic cars. Due to their unique designs these tires must be installed in sets of four.

#2.) Studless Ice and Snow

You want to maximize snow and ice traction from your winter tires without the inconvenience of using winter tire studs.

Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these tires feature the latest in tread compound technology to provide winter traction without the inconvenience of tire studs. They trade a little handling for excellent ice and snow traction. Due to their unique tread compounds these tires must be installed in sets of four.

#3.) Studdable Winter

You want the traditional security of studded winter tires for enhanced traction on ice.

Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these tires feature traditional snow tire tread compounds and studdable tread designs for good snow and ice traction. Due to their unique designs these tires must be used in sets of four. Use of studded tires is often prohibited or restricted. Check with local authorities to confirm legality. Keep in mind that these can be used without studs if desired.

But Do I Really Need Winter Tires?

The primary concern that our customers express is that they don't want to get "stuck" in the snow (or in the ditch) during the winter.

While in cities like Atlantic City, Memphis and Seattle located at the edge of the snow belt, relatively new All-Season tires will probably work just fine. But the odds change as you move further into the snow belt or the All-Season tires have a few years of wear on them. And who wants to gamble...especially when their collision deductible and future insurance premiums are on the table.

We all know that tires are a compromise. One tire can't be the fastest on the track, most controllable in the snow, and longest wearing. The Ultra High Performance tire that grips the track with tread temperatures of 200° is incompetent as its tread compound becomes like "hard plastic" at below 32°. Today's 80,000-mile tires require tread designs and compounds that maximize long, even wear... not winter traction. And while many of today's all-season tires (Original Equipment, touring and performance) address some of these issues, they still emphasize longer wear, a quieter ride or greater performance...not winter traction.

Only winter tires are designed to excel in the colder temperatures, slush, snow and ice that many parts of the country experience for three or more months a year.

It's also important to note that the recent advancements in electronic driver aids, such as ABS and traction control don't provide more traction. They only help prevent drivers from over braking or overpowering the available traction of their tires. The only thing the driver can do to increase traction...to actually get more grip and control... is install better tires.

As in the past, there are 'general use' recommended packages for each model car to be found at our Winter category but, if you would like to discuss other options for your specific need please don't hesitate to give me a call at 800-428-8355 ext. 788 or drop me an e-mail.

You can also post in this thread but please supply the following information ....

Year:
Make:
Model:
Location:
Tires only or winter package:

and I will respond directly to your post.

I will also be adding to this thread periodically so check back often.

Links to use to get the forum credit for your order:
- Tires
- Wheels
- Winter
- Brakes
- Suspension
 
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#112 ·
Haha yeah math! 215 is the width in millimeters, 55 side wall height percentage of the width of the tire, and 16 is the rim diameter which is in imperial so to convert to metric is 16x25.4. So times two because you have two side walls top and bottom 2x(215x.55)+(16x25.4)= 642.9 mm total diameter of the tire. And to convert millimeters to imperial if you want divide the millimeters by 25.4
So remember the total diameter of the tire can't be more then 3% deviance for the original diameter.
 
#116 ·
Hey guys,

I was searching but I did not find anything definite. This will be the first winter with my 2010 Focus SES which currently has the 205/45/17s on it. I have 4 snow tires that are 195/65/15 and before buying some winter rims I wanted to make sure they will fit. I know a stock size for the 2010 wheels are 195/60 (not 65). I just wanted to make sure that slight difference wouldn't cause any rubbing. The speedo will be slightly off and I assume the tire pressure sensors will not work. Anything else major?

Any input is greatly appreciated!
 
#117 ·
I think the 195/65 may be just a hair too tall. The overall diameter would be right at 25" compared to the stock 24.2" They should work, you should have enough room, but I would rather see the 195/60's on there as well.

Sorry I can't give you a definite answer either.
 
#118 ·
First, I will admit that I haven't read all twelve pages of this thread, but I do have a question about the first post on page 1. Why can't I just buy 2 winter tires? If it was a rear drive car I would understand, but on a front wheel drive car, the rears are just following along.

Sent from my BNTV400 using Tapatalk
 
#120 · (Edited)
First, I will admit that I haven't read all twelve pages of this thread, but I do have a question about the first post on page 1. Why can't I just buy 2 winter tires? If it was a rear drive car I would understand, but on a front wheel drive car, the rears are just following along.

Sent from my BNTV400 using FF Mobile
In snow/ice conditions, winter tires grip better than the OEMs you have on your car. If winter tires are only on the front, the rear end of your car is more likely to slide in a turn, making a spin much more likely. This "oversteer" tendency is more dangerous than "understeer" (the front end losing traction first) because simply lifting off the gas (a normal reaction) will correct understeer but may make oversteer worse.
 
#119 ·
Hey guys, first time poster, here is my question. I have a 2013 Focus w/Appearance package so 17" OEM wheels. I am looking to get snows put on for the winter here in upstate, NY. A buddy of mine has a set of 225-55-17 General Altimax Arctics that he used for two seasons and no longer needs, looks like there is plenty of meat on the bone for me to use a couple more seasons. Problem is I don't know if they will fit properly without some serious rubbing. The stock tire size is 215-50-17. Should I just take it to the dealer and check? Thanks in advance.
 
#121 ·
If your rear tires were just "following along", every cheap car would have the smallest, skinniest wheels and tires they could possibly put back there to keep costs down.

Even though they don't look like they're doing anything, the rear tires in a FWD car do quite a bit to ensure your vehicle is stabile.
 
#122 ·
Any reviews on these?
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?AFFCODE=AD5&tireMake=Dunlop&tireModel=Winter+Maxx

Currently they are the lowest priced snow tires by about $100 between 205.50.16 and 195.55.16 on tirerack. They are $340 after rebate for the 195.55's... That price difference and the fact they have no reviews yet are making me skeptic.


Also, i know for winter skinnier is better, is it safe to drop down to 185.55? I know tirerack says the preferred size for our 16's is 205.50, the 185.55 is actually closer to that than the 195.55's when it comes to revs per mile. Just not sure how that narrow of tire will handle when the roads arent covered in snow.
 
#124 ·
Nothing yet, It's a brand new model that's replacing the Graspic DS-3. That did well in snow so we're expecting good things out of the Winter Maxx.

As for the size, The 185/55 would be best for deep snow but yeah you would sacrifice most of your clean road handling. I would probably stick with the 195/55R16 just to be safe.
 
#123 ·
Alright guys, so help me out here. Last winter I had my Focus wagon and I got a really good deal on some winter tires and wheels for it (paid $300 for oem 15" wheels with tires). It ended up being an absolute tank in the snow with the tires I put on it. I dont think that the states has them, but they are called the Toyo Observe G-02 plus. Anyway, as I said, they performed amazing in the snow, to a point that I was driving along a highway after being the first one behind a snowplow, and when those snow plows stopped to allow traffic to go by I drove past them. Anyway, it ended up being three of us on this highway, I was following the other two cars, there was 6" of snow on the ground, and we were doing the 50mph speed limit with no issues. I then arrived in a parking lot that had about 10" of snow in it and my car did not have a single issue stopping or starting out. To put it into perspective, on my way back from giving my dad his keys (he locked himself out of his truck an hour away from where we live) I drove back down the highway and a snowplow actually got stuck and slid across the highway. I was able to go around and was fine the whole way home. Anyways, now to my question (finally). This season I have my new car (SVT) and I have had a guy leave a note on my windshield. He said that he has a set of Team Dynamics Pro Race 1 wheels with Blizzak ws60 tires mounted on them that are at about 65% tread life. However, I have heard that Blizzak snow tires become an all season tire once they get to the 50% point in their life. So what I am wondering is, A, are these a good tire, and B, do they actually become an all season or ineffective in the snow after the 50% mark? If so, I will most likely pass on his deal. He wanted $750 for them, but when I told him that I didnt have that kind of money to spend on snow tires he told me he does not really want to mess with craigslist and that we could work something out. So my target is to get them for around $400-$600 depending on how flexible he is. Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice. I really hope I can find some winter tires before I have to do any winter driving. I would not be buying them if I didnt have a ski pass for the local mountain, but seeing as I do, I figure better safe than sorry.
 
#125 ·
.... However, I have heard that Blizzak snow tires become an all season tire once they get to the 50% point in their life....
Easy answer - no.

Complicated answer - When the Blizzak WS60 is 50-percent worn, a tread depth indicator molded into the tread design lets the driver know that only 10 percent of the remaining tread is the Tube Multicell compound. The multicell compound looks like swiss cheese when examined through a microscope and features thousands of microscopic tubes and cells that wick away the water between the tire's contact patch and the road surface. As the tread wears, new pores and tubes are constantly exposed. This flexible rubber compound improves the tire's grip in cold conditions while the bite particles attached to the tubes scratch at packed snow and icy surfaces for traction.

After the multicell compound is gone, the tire is still a winter compound, not an all-season, but with most of the tread depth gone they will not work as well in deep snow, just like any other winter tire works well in deep snow below 5 or 6/32nds.

Doesn't sound like a bad deal though, depending on if you can get him down to the $400-$500 range, depending on the shape of the wheels
 
#129 ·
I had four left over snow tires from my last focus.An oldie,2000.Good tires.I have a 2012 focus now and thought I was saving myself some money by buying four cheap used 15" rims for those tires.Going from a 16 to a 15" in the winter is ok,rims are 5x108 great.The tires are 195/60-15's.The optional 15" recommendation is 195/65-15.Calculators recommend staying within 3% of the diameter.Theres a 3.09% difference here.Tires are not set up on rims so test fitting isn't much of an option.Has anyone here used 195/60-15's on there focus?Its an se.Thanks for any help.
 
#130 ·
So skipping through several pages of this thread, and to follow what was in the original post, here is my info.

Year: 2008
Make: Ford
Model: Focus SES (Coupe)
Location: Central Maryland (Roughly 45 minutes from Baltimore City)
Tires Only

I have two sets of wheels and tires. I have a summer set, and a "winter" set. I put winter in quotations because my winter set consists of my OEM 16" wheels and some 3-4 year old all season tires with low tread (Fuzion HRI's, that they don't even make them anymore). Not truly winter ready at all.

My questions are, what would be the best winter tire I can get, in a set of four, that won't cost me more then about $350? (There is a little wiggle room on that price) And what other size tires can I put on my OEM rims besides 205/50R/16 and have no issues? I should also note that my car has been lowered roughly 2 to 2.5 inches.

Thanks in advance!
 
#132 ·
So I ended up buying the winter tires and wheels from the guy. I don't think I got the best deal ($750) for the wheels, tires, and a euro rack for my car. But I measured them when I got home and didn't realize that the tread 7/32 in the middle, but it has not hit the micro bit compound wear bar on either side of the tires. So he was obviously running them over inflated. Should I run them a bit under inflated to compensate for this or are they just going to be bad in the snow regardless now?
 
#133 ·
Hi, Tirerack,

I'm 2014 Titanium owner, looking for winter package.
it looks like tirerack recommended 195/60/15 is out of 3% boundary with by 17inch set - any reason Tirerack is recommending this sets?

Also if I opt for 16inch package, which size of wheel should I get? I can find there's 16X6.5 and 16X7 used by ford stock, what's the differences between them?
 
#135 ·
Need winter tires to replace my OEM's

I have a '12 SE auto w/ sport pkg. and the 225R15's with 35K on them cost me a $50 tow bill on my OWN street this afternoon. Not worn (3k rotations and always properly inflated) but not knobbies, either. I need to get replacement tires in the a.m. and like Mastercrafts (by Cooper) from years of experience with non-performance compound tires. I know I need to replace all 4 or do I? Get 4 installed on steel rims to take off and replace with the factory alloys once the threat of snow is gone?
Any of you snowbirds have any suggestions? Thanks!
 
#136 ·
Year:2014
Make:Ford
Model:Focus Hatch
Location: North Carolina
Tires only or winter package: Winter Package

In the winter time I snowboard in the Appalachian mountain range. Snow amount varies from dustings to a 12" (Not that I would drive in that much with this car) We get more wintery mix crap locally. (2 hours east of the slopes) I am thinking I would buy a set of steel wheels to mount some winter tires on and swap out between summer wheels to winter set up when I put my snowboard racks on.
 
#137 ·
So I did some searching but haven't found too much information for my application:

2013 Focus ST, OEM tire size 235/40/18.

Tire Rack's site says they have a 16x6.5" steel wheel that fits. What's my best option for tires? 205/60/16?
 
#138 ·
We currently have the 16x6.5 steel wheels in stock and the Pirelli Winter Sottozero3 in 215/55R16, a performance winter tire, would be the recommended set of tires.

Though not one of the recommended sizes, 205/60R16 should work and it opens up some more options if you wanted a studless ice and snow tire. These work a bit better on ice and deep snow but have softer sidewalls so they will not feel as firm and set at speed when the roads are clear and it's just cold. Hope this helps.
 
#139 ·
Thanks for the input, Seth.

Do you think the 205/60/16 would really give up that much as compared to 215/55/16? It looks like there's a pretty steep price hike on the latter size. And if rolling diameter is similar, where is the instability coming from since sidewall height is close?

I understand in winter-time, skinnier is better. Plus, isn't a 205 width a bit better fit for a 6.5" rim? I run 205's on my 8" wheels on the Mazda... (no it's not stretch/poke)

I'm not trying to discount/ignore your recommendation. Just trying to better understand. For what it's worth, MO winters are generally pretty mild, so the wider section width may not really apply to me. I just don't want to find myself out and stuck.
 
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