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ABS limiting at the track/AX?

3K views 19 replies 10 participants last post by  WeeAsp 
#1 ·
Had a great day at the NASA AX today - without going into a long drawn-out story (yet [hihi] ), how many of you find the ABS kicking in when you're trying to brake at the limit and screwing you up?
I'm starting to get a good feel for using the weight transfer in heavy braking to get the back end of the car rotating, but I'm finding that at the absolute limit the ABS kicks in and destroys the balance I'm trying to use.
WD40 mentioned pulling the ABS fuse puts the braking system balance in a 50/50 limp mode, and is a *bad* idea.

Do most of you just deal with this? Is the ABS really telling me the truth on the braking limit?
 
#3 ·
ABS? What's that? [;)]

If its kicking in, I would assume you just exceeded threshold braking.
 
#4 ·
^^^Exactly...you've found the limit.
What tires are you running??

DON'T pull that fuse (46) and expect to stay on track. (or anywhere near on track)
I tried that a month ago at a threshold braking excercise during our test and tune.
While I got out of the hole like a bullet (no TC),
the instant I hit the brakes the car turned 90° sideways since the rears locked up immediately.
Again, I stress...never ever try this on a road course or autocross,
and expect your car not to sustain massive amounts of damage as you leave the course.

The ABS is nothing short of phenomenal on the SVT, especially with the given large rotors.
I'll bet your tires are the limiting factor at the moment, which is why I asked what you were running.
 
#7 ·
Concur. You found the limit. Tires are also a BIG contributor.

That said. Threshold braking is an art.

Your car demonstrates is highest braking ability right at the point of lock-up or just before the ABS kicks activates.

I am not saying that you do, but most people brake with the ball of their foot. As a result, they are using about 7X the pressure necessary to effectively slow the car.

Try using your toes. They are just as, if not more sensitive, than your finger tips (step on a sharp rock and you jump - put your hand on a sharp rock and you go "OW!"). Using your toes will allow you to be more progressive with your braking and likely not upset the car as much.

A lot of people "heel and toe" using thier toes. Unless you have a lot of time to practice, it takes a while to master. I personally have never been able to get it right.

As for the ABS fuse. WD40 is right. The SVT ABS system is phenomenal. You'll create more problems for yourself by disabling it. Not only from a systems standpoint, but also one of conditioning. Your body (muscle memory) is trained to react when the ABS kicks in. Remove the ABS, not only do you flat spot tires, but your reaction time is slowed as you process how to proceed.

The toes knows. [:D]
 
#5 ·
I never had ABS problems on track or at an autocross.
 
#8 ·
OK - thanks for the replies!

I'm running crappy, greasy (when they get hot) Falken Ziex's. They were my "learning set" and now I feel I'm ready to step up to a set of Azenis.
Really helped to learn what it feels like to slide the car around a bit, at least [driving]!

I'm hoping to kill them good and dead this Sunday, then I'll *have* to get a new set. They're holding a raffle (AX is a benefit for the JimmyV foundation), and one of the prizes is $500 for tires at Discount Tire - you can guess what I'm hoping for!
 
#11 ·
pulling the fuse as you all noted creates a problem for the less seasoned driver, but for someone who has raced for a while now especially somthing like an MR2, having the rear end "happy" can actually be a benefit if you know how to use it to your advantage and still eliminating the problem with traction control. Since you are switching tires very soon, i recommend on keeping the fuse in and making sure you are 100% comfortable with the car before you try pulling the fuse. It only helps me have more fun around course, not neccessarrily faster since i MAY have only found like .5secs on the leader
 
#13 ·
Slightly diff situation, it sounds like. If you upgraded your front brakes only, you shifted the bias forward, and pulling the fuse slightly overcompensated.
Don't know, but I would guess the SVT has different natural brake bias/ABS programming than a sedan.

Thanks for the tips - been braking with my toes all day.

Another thing that really helped is I got a Schroth Rallye4 harness before the event - being glued in the seat let my feet and hands work the controls rather than support my body.
 
#15 ·
Thanks for the tips - been braking with my toes all day.

Another thing that really helped is I got a Schroth Rallye4 harness before the event - being glued in the seat let my feet and hands work the controls rather than support my body.
How's the toe technique working for you? Feel like you have a better feel for the brakes?
 
#16 ·
How's the toe technique working for you? Feel like you have a better feel for the brakes?
Boy if that wasn't a "Department of Redundancy Department" question...

[?|]

Seriously, how is the toe technique working for you?
 
#12 ·
ABS, whats that, I have never had a car with it I generally can brake better in a familiar car without abs then in a familiar car with abs.
Hell, my track toy has manual brakes
 
#19 ·
Thanks for the concern - the Schroth is actually DOT- approved.

http://www.soloracer.com/harnschrothfaq.html

The shoulder belts are connected to the rear passenger seatbelt points, and the lap belt attaches to the stock driver seatbelt points. They have this tech they call ASM for anti-submarining that is supposed to apply slightly unequal force on the shoulder belts, which cranks the lap-belt in a way that locks the pelvis in the seat.

Pretty cool harness, but I think I need the shoulder-belt pads. Got it from a guy in the club who had it in his SVT Contour (badged SVT Hybrid - 3.0L Escape block, ported+polished Taurus heads, SVT intake).
 
#20 ·
That's good to know. I wasn't aware that the Schroth harness has DOT approval.

Very cool. I will say that the belt pads do make a difference. My harnesses would always dig into my skin and be very uncomfortable if they slipped under my safety collar ad rubbed my neck.
 
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