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New T-Belt Tensioner Failure... :(

17K views 87 replies 25 participants last post by  Sniper Focus 
#1 ·
So, did my T-Belt about a month ago. Using Ford timing tools, got everything lined up, motor was TDC. Got everything installed, everything stayed in time after parts installed, buthad some stumbling issues at first and found cracks in my plugs. After replacing those everything was fine.

Fast foward - Sunday I was driving the car and it died while I was coasting to a stop, doing roughly 10-15 mph. Wouldn't fire back up, so I pushed it to a parking spot and went about my business (school project). Came out a few hours later, still no fire, so I left it overnight and had it towed to a mechanic in the morning.

Mechanic got into it and found the timing was off. Belt looked fine, but there was obvious slack in it. He had another car he was working on, so I started poking around and found the tensioner had lost tension. WTF? It was tightened to torque spec, car ran flawlessly for a month, and then boom? The head is coming off tomorrow and I'll find out exactly which valves are mangled.

I'm simply too busy to do this right now (otherwise I would be doing it myself), but do I have any recourse with a bad part? I bought the Gates TCK294A kit and from everything I've read, its the same kit as TCK294B with an extra pulley for older Zetec motors. Anyone ever dealt with something like this besides just taking it up the rear?
 
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#45 ·
I really, really, really didn't want to re-do my timing for at least another 70K but I don't know that I can trust this damned Gates tensioner now. I was very close to ordering all Ford/Motorcraft parts but since everyone seemed to have such good things to say about Gates I went against my better judgement and now Its going to mean re-doing my timing. I guess its better than dealing with bent valves and a busted head though ...
 
#48 ·
You might not have to do the whole thing again. Check it first and tighten it up if you have to then go from there. Be 110% sure to keep at least some tension on the belt - don't let it go completely slack when loosening the bolt! Also use a good torque wrench...it's too critical to use a 'calibrated hand.'
 
#50 ·
At the time I ordered through Amazon the B kit was out of stock. I didn't see it as an issue as it had the same parts plus I was able to get a deal on the shipping since I was buying Ford timing tools at the same time. Saving $5 bucks cost me 2 grand so far... :(

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#51 ·
The a kit uses a 70mm upper idler pulley, the b kit uses a 60mm pulley. They also have different mounting locations on the cylinder head. I would think that if the wrong kit was used there would be too much tension on that belt.

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#52 ·
The a kit uses a 70mm upper idler pulley, the b kit uses a 60mm pulley. They also have different mounting locations on the cylinder head. I would think that if the wrong kit was used there would be too much tension on that belt.

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Did you even bother to check the earlier posts in this thread?

I checked ALL of the parts I put on the car for part number matches, which I posted pictures of on page 3. I also measured the parts vs. stock for giggles as well before installation.

The timing idler pulley that came in the kit was Gates T42036 which is a 60mm idler pulley. The extra pulley in the kit (for Escorts) was never opened.

I wouldn't have made this thread if I put the wrong parts on the car, then it would be completely my mistake.
 
#53 ·
Sorry it just there me off when I saw the part numbers. I always thought the "a" kits came with a bigger idler pulley. I just did my timing belt a few weeks ago with a gates kit as well. And at one point I was doing the same kind of research for a motor I did a head swap in.

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#54 ·
i was changing the drive belt on my svt today, figured it would be easier to go in from the top...while i was in there i took off the upper timing cover to have a look at the condition of the belt. i noticed the t-belt tensioner alignment pointer was about a half inch lower than where it should be. it drives fine and havent had an issue in the 50,000+ km that ive put on the motor since i did t-belt swap....seems a little weird that the tensioner would have backed off that much since then, i know it was put together right and torqued correctly cause i did it myself a few years back and followed the install instructions to the letter....after reading this im freaked right the F out!! i loosened the bolt and re-set the tension...gonna check it again in a few weeks! hopefully no "boom" in my future(fingers crossed)
 
#62 ·
Got the head back from the machine shop today :



Head bolts and gasket are in tomorrow, should start getting it back together. Depending on the mechanics workflow, I might have her back on Friday, potentially Monday though.

I got my new T-Belt, Tensioner, and Idler from Steve @ Tousley. He rocks! I'll put up some detailed pictures of the tensioner tomorrow or Friday depending on when I have time.

Then off to get my RE-11a's :D
 
#65 ·
You guys are driving yourselves crazy. The tensioner can be correct and in range and the VCT blows all of that out of the water if the solenoid has leaked down while motor sat. Meaning you can see what appears to be abnormal looseness in the belt and still run correct. The VCT allows the cam to fall out of time with slack when motor is static. Why Ford tells you not to ever back off a tensioner once it's set. Besides that the belt breaking in the first five minutes of use means the tensioner range is incorrect after that point in time. Range is only correct on a brand new unstretched belt. The ONLY WAY you can recheck used belt tension is with the variable cam pulled up to the absolute zero end stop and all slack pulled to backside of tensioner after rolling motor around. Try that and see how difficult it is to get it all just right at the same time.

The tensioner, Ford branded or otherwise, is not high enough quality to hold exact setting once it has been banged on some by a running belt anyway. It was only intended to be used once at setup time and the pointer can change and sometimes drastically once run in, the range will not be like it was. Freaking out over that and over correcting for it will surely buy you grief.

Casted later design parts being bad? Nope. The only way would be if they were CRACKED, I see no mention or evidence of that at all. Casted parts don't deform, they crack, or the dead giveaway the part is substandard. You'd best look closer at your perceived 'better quality' Ford part, the base support in it it is cast also. I've seen your 'better quality' steel Ford tube insert in the center come apart too, as it is only held together by the cheapest quality stake job you can imagine. I've rebuilt them before. I for one cannot see the raving about castings when the freakin' pulley is PLASTIC, or the weakest part there, I've seen several of the plastic pulleys crack apart to let the bearings fall away free. FORD branded pulleys.................

Anybody figured out you can roll the tensioner eccentric in either of two directions yet? You can roll it in from the bottom or in from the top............I
 
#66 ·
Casted later design parts being bad? Nope. The only way would be if they were CRACKED, I see no mention or evidence of that at all.
Some cast and powdered metal can bend before cracking - depending on which metals they're made of.
You're missing the OP..the tensioner allowed enough slack in the belt to cause bent valves. Something in it obviously went wrong.
 
#67 ·
Yes, it can bend slightly, but where bent on the part pictured to allow that? All I see is a pretty much polished bolt seating point, which could argue strongly not tight enough. No magic to a tensioner, if something went wrong with it then it would not spring properly anymore or broken somewhere, or roller locked up. Barring physical evidence of tensioner damage the tensioner did not do it. He has a case if tensioner is broken or collapsed to be able to see it somehow.

Somebody needs to take the tensioner apart to determine what you're looking for. That front casted part looks like aluminum to me.
 
#68 · (Edited)
The entire kit is being returned through Amazon to Gates. If they find an issue I'll update here, but I have no idea how quick that will happen.

If I incorrectly installed the kit, I have no issue taking responsibility for flattening my exhaust valves, but something had to happen to cause the tensioner to lose tension and allow my exhaust cam to jump. The tensioner was torqued to spec. The mechanic who has my car now checked for this and verified my work and requested new all new parts for a timing fix, not just a belt. They've seen it happen before, one of those rare things that unfortunately happens.
 
#69 ·
I'd be interested to hear of people that used the revised tensioner with SUCCESS, if the two failures mentioned are the only two that have occured then it would be easier to dismiss it as a freak accident and not an indicator of the general quality of the revised tensioner. I really want to swap my timing belt soon but having this part has me wary of putting it in....
 
#71 ·
I also have the 294B kit, I know the PO used the 294A kit.....I wonder if the other guy that had his pop used the 294A or 294B......maybe there is some difference between the A-kit and B-kit that's causing the issue?
 
#72 ·
I would say it's rare if it did happen. If common you'd be able to hear of the pending class action lawsuit or somesuch. I would think lunching motors would get Gates' attention lickety-split. Or so one would hope, nowadays, maybe not.

Rent, not saying anything to disparage you, would've been nice to see if tensioner still had its' springiness to it. Other than that it should've been obviously broken. Who knows? Something as rare as trash in bearing locks it for a millisecond, belt jumps then bearing peels back free to give no obvious clue what happened.
 
#73 ·
FWIW, the mechanic initially retimed the car and it held while running a compression test, but obviously the car wouldn't run.

Update - car is 90% back together. I helped set the timing and torque down the cam gears (having someone help do this is crucial, 89 ft/lbs on the intake cam is a lot for one arm), everything lined up TDC after triple checking and whatnot. He probably has another 2 hours of reassembly before its good to go, hopefully I won't have to screw with P1381 & P1383 now.

Tomorrow will hopefully be a good day [race]
 
#76 ·
Got her back today. What a relief. No 1381 or 1383.

Went to Firestone and got my RE-11a's put on and an alignment. Was surprisingly out of spec for only a month and a half of driving.

I'll update this thread if/when I hear back from Gates.
 
#77 ·
I'm in Fort Worth and could use some assistance on my 03 svt. I rebuilt the engine and can't seem to shake the timing gremlins myself (p1381 & 1383). Really frustrated with it. I know it has a lot of potential now with forged pistons and the vortech h.o. kit. Just can't get it timed right
 
#78 ·
In case you haven't seen it, >>this<< thread over at FJ is a gold mine of information about the 1381/1383 codes. When I changed my belt I followed the procedure they detail in that thread and I've driven ~3500 miles without throwing a code.
 
#83 ·
any further updates on what gates has to say about the tensioner? Did we ever find out if the other member who had a similar failure used the 294A kit instead of the 294B? Are these still the only two failures?
 
#84 ·
I haven't heard anything from Gates. I'll be following up next week as I know that it can take time for them to receive and process parts.

Unsure about the other question. To my knowledge, these are the only two cases of failure.

I was looking at another SVT last weekend - he runs around without the upper timing cover on. His t-belt tensioner was sitting at the lower limit of the range arm with the car off. I didn't see it running, so I'm not sure if it moved back or not.

I can remark on one detail that struck me since I've had my car back. After I finished my initial T-belt job, the car ran fine, but would make a distinct whine on shut-down. It never had done that before and I haven't heard it from any other car, so it was weird, but I thought it might have been a break in issue or another pulley on the accessory track, so I didn't look that much into it. With everything replaced, the while is gone. Just something to think about.
 
#87 ·
I had my t-belt replaced about 6 months ago on my 2003 SVT. I used the complete kit from Gates for the 2L Focus engines and my brother (experienced mechanic) did the job. The tensioner failed after about 2 months of use. I was lucky enough to hear the t-belt flap against the upper cover, because it was so loose! I had it towed to his garage not to take any chance, I was able to move the belt on cam gears easily by hand... there was no tension anymore.

I bought an OEM tensioner, got it replaced (along with the belt because it rubbed a bit) and it is fine now.

if you look closely on Gates' website, it clearly says that the tensioner is not for the SVT (or 5 vin) models. All the other parts of the kit are.

My 2 cents
 
#88 ·
Technically Gates' old style tensioner wasn't for the SVT either, but it worked.

I intended to get an OEM tensioner, but then the Gates kit is so much cheaper and I started to wonder if this old thread was mass paranoia. I guess I'll be getting an OEM tensioner as I originally planned.
 
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