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Time to Prep for AutoX - Input Welcome

4K views 29 replies 6 participants last post by  tehmaxfactr 
#1 ·
Last year was the first year with the car out on the AutoX course. I drive a 03 SVT with a Powerworks S/C.

I want to find a designated AutoX wheel/tire setup. I'm thinking on going down to a 16" wheel and running a tire like the R1r.

Should I stick with a 17"? Also, what is a great tire with Tread Wear above 139?

After the tires are figured out I want to get:

-Caster/Camber Plates. Any recommendations?

- LSD- Most likely Torsen for the price savings from the Qualife. If I get this done I'm planning on throwing in new races and such. Anyone know what the shop time would be for an install of an LSD?

- Possibly some stiffer springs.

There is more, I am just forgetting.

Thanks for all input!
 
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#2 ·
Not sure what other mods you currently have, but the supercharger puts you into at least SMF. I'm assuming by your 140+ treadwear requirement that you're planning to run a street-tire indexed class, right? If not, you should be looking at R-Compound tires, such as the Hoosier A6, Kumho V710, Hankook Z214, etc. Really depends what class you want to run and how competitive you want to be.
 
#3 ·
It is a private club held AutoX event. The classes are nothing like SCCA. They are based on experience, but if you have a tire <139 you are in an Race class and >139 you are in a street class correct.

The people in the Experienced-Race class are in corvettes and cars I would not be competitive with. I tend to race in the Experienced-Street class so that I can be competitive.
 
#8 ·
If I wanted the BEST set-up for that application, then yes, I would go that wide. A 17x8.5 would probably work just as well, but I wouldn't go any narrower than a 17x8 with that tire. R1R's like a little stretch.

If you're willing to compromise a little, a good option that will be almost as fast would be a 225/45ZR16 Dunlop ZII on 16x8 wheels.

I think K-Mac and LCR both look like good options, but are relatively expensive. The reviews for the SPC's aren't very good, but they're cheap and better than nothing. For my car, I'm waiting for Ground Control to release their Mazda3 camber plate. I think I might be able to modify it to work on the Focus.
 
#9 ·
Do you happen to know of a wheel that is 17x9 or 8.5 that has appropriate backspacing to fit on a SVT. I haven't even found a wheel, without looking into 2-piece wheels.

Yeah, that's the thing, those CC plates just seem ridiculous to pay that much. But, I do need something and don't want to sacrifice quality.
 
#10 ·
Do you happen to know of a wheel that is 17x9 or 8.5 that has appropriate backspacing to fit on a SVT. I haven't even found a wheel, without looking into 2-piece wheels.
Just did a quick search. Something like these might work: http://esmwheels.com/access/esm-004-sl-17-p-103.html

I think 6" backspace should be about right. So +25 offset on a 9" wide wheel. There's a chance you could fit a wheel with more backspace, but you might end up having to use a small spacer.

Again, I'm not sure what clearance will be like. Maybe search on this site to see if others have fit 17x9's.
 
#14 ·
Just put together a 16" wheel/tire combo based on the 16" wheel being 6lbs less that the 17"

If ESM can drill the wheel to a 4x108 I would do ..

16x8 4x108 Offset -20 CenterBore -67.1

With BFG Rival - 225/50ZR16

I've read good things on the Rivals. What do you think of that?
 
#17 ·
There are a couple of things that I consider when recommending 140+ utqg "street" tires.

1. What is the weight of the car they're going on?
- There seems to be an ideal tire for various weight ranges of cars. There are a number of reasons why, (ie: construction, compound, etc.,) but the bottom line is that some tires just work better on certain cars. Example:
Car weight:
1800-2200 pounds: 195/50ZR15 Toyo Proxes R1R
2200-2600 pounds: 205/50ZR15 Dunlop ZII, BFG Rival, or 225 Hankook RS3.
2600-2800 pounds: 235/40ZR17 Toyo Proxes R1R
2800 pounds or more: 255/40ZR17 (or bigger) Dunlop ZII or Hankook RS3
(these are just a few examples, but if you research a little, you'll find they're pretty accurate.)

2. What are the wheel and suspension allowances in the class?
- If a vehicle is required to run stock wheels and suspension, this will affect my tire choice. Stock wheels are narrow, so I'm more likely to look for a tire with a stiffer sidewall/carcass. This will help prevent the tire from rolling-over under hard cornering. If you can use a wider wheel, this becomes less of a concern, because a tire that sits square or slightly-stretched on a wheel is actually more supported. There will be less deflection/lateral movement of the tread. Stock suspension means softer spring rates and less camber, both of which directly affect the way the tire contacts the road under hard driving.

I took all of these things into consideration, and that's how I came up with the sizes that I recommended. Is a 225 on a 16x8 almost as good? Yeah probably, but it's not the best. Your car has a lot of power. Wheel weight becomes less of a factor, and contact patch becomes more of a factor. Not to mention that the Toyo has a reputation for putting power down (longitudinal traction) better than other street tires.

Extra sidewall allows for more movement/compliance, which is basically a softer spring rate. So it can be good or bad, based on your needs.
 
#18 ·
That is a lot of great information. Thank you!

You do bring up a good point that I probably do not need to worry about un-sprung weight for my wheel choice. Last year I ran AR 17" x 7.5" wheels with 225x45 Michelin pilot super sports and they did moderately well, but then again that is the only wheel/tire combo I have used and feel I'm missing out on a whole other world!

I guess I will research what it takes to fit a 17x9. This is my DD car as well and I take care of it to the T, so I don't want to be banging up my fenders.

Also, my car is stock, but I will end up taking out the rear seats this year but I still bet i fall in the 2600-2800 range. And I want to plan on keeping my stock suspension for now. Eventually, I want to pick up some Koni Yellows

I also think the LSD is going to make a huge difference. Not spinning the inside tire around sharp turns will be crucial.

Thanks for the help I really appreciate it. [cheers]

Edit: What do you think about the Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 ? Looks like I can get - 9.0 x 17 e23 / 27 / 30 / 35 / 40 / 45

Now for back spacing, what offset works best to keep it inside the fender without hitting the strut? Do you happen to know what the max width is between strut and fender?
 
#19 ·
I'm not saying unsprung weight doesn't matter. It does, and I would still recommend going with the lightest wheel you can find in a given size.

Offset/backspace recommendation I made before: http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5565522&postcount=10

Team Dynamics usually makes decent stuff.

If you're still on stock suspension, there is really no reason to go "all out" on wheels and tires yet. Your money would be better spent on suspension mods. If buying 16x8's with 225's save you enough money that you can apply some towards suspension, that would be more beneficial, IMO.
 
#20 ·
Gotcha. Have you yourself fit a 17x9 with the +25? I just want to lock a size in my head to hunt for and like to hear it from someone that they fit it no issues.

I have been looking into suspension mods, but I am very impressed with the stock SVT stuff. I know it gets better, but for daily driving the car and a handful of AutoX a year I'm more than pleased.

Last year when I ran I finished 3rd out of 22 in my class. Not bad considering I beat a LP640 Lamborghini!; and only missed 1st by 10ths of a second.

I know I was losing time off the line,(AWD Lancer came in first) and in the sharp 90 degree turns, the over-steer was killing me and I would end up smoking the inside tire.
 
#24 ·
Gotcha. Have you yourself fit a 17x9 with the +25?
Nope. I'm just going by the backspacing of other wheels that are known to fit. 6" backspace should be about right. You might be able to go with a little more backspacing, but be prepared to use a spacer if you do. My approach has always been that it's better to add a spacer to a wheel with too much backspace, than to be stuck with a wheel that sticks out too far from not having enough backspace. Again, there are a lot of things that come into play. Your ride height, alignment, spring rates, etc., can all have an effect on whether everything will clear. Keep in mind that things may clear while the car is static, but could still make contact under load while autocrossing. I ran 17x9 wheels with 255 tires on my old STX E36 BMW. I had to have just the right amount of camber so the tires would tuck into the wheels wells under load without contacting anything. I also had to use spacers on the front wheels to put them in just the right place so they wouldn't make contact. It comes down to trial and error. The tires rubbed on that car when I first built it, but eventually I found the right set up that worked. You'll have to decide for yourself if it's worth the hassle or not.
 
#22 ·
I would absolutely be interested! PM me when your ready to sell with a price and hopefully we can work something out.

Curious as to why your selling though? How did that setup perform? I've read good things, but nice to hear it directly
 
#26 ·
as someone who has fitted 17x9 wheels, i will say that it took alot of effort, and I have fender flares. (mine were ~23mm offset)
to get it to fit under OEM fenders without rubbing, the fitment of wheel and tire would have to be absolutely perfect.

of course on the rear of the car you only need 17x7, reverse stagger.

So, you could just cut your front fenders to clear any old 17x9. Then when auto-x season is done, bolt on some nice uncut fenders.

Team dynamnics wheels are awesome. I have 2 sets. 15x7 and 17x7. Its probably one of the best choices for a light 17x9 in our bolt pattern. Look up ClintB (spelling?), he ran those on his time attack car, you can find out his specs.
 
#27 ·
as someone who has fitted 17x9 wheels, i will say that it took alot of effort, and I have fender flares. (mine were ~23mm offset)
to get it to fit under OEM fenders without rubbing, the fitment of wheel and tire would have to be absolutely perfect.

of course on the rear of the car you only need 17x7, reverse stagger.

So, you could just cut your front fenders to clear any old 17x9. Then when auto-x season is done, bolt on some nice uncut fenders.
What tire size and model were you running on the 17x9's? Was the issue with "tire" clearance, or "wheel" clearance? Ride height? Camber?

IMO, if you have to run 17x7's on the rear, it defeats the purpose of running this set-up. I've run staggered set-up's on FWD cars with R-compound tires, but street tires are different. There are very few instances where it would make sense to run staggered street tires. The whole purpose of running the 17x9's in this case, is to be able to use the 235/40ZR17 Toyo R1R. It's the best 140+ utqg tire you can put on a car in this weight range. If you can't run that tire at all four corners on wheels that are sufficiently wide, then you might as well go with a different tire/wheel set-up.

Here is a picture of a 235/40ZR17 R1R on a 17x9 RPF1 that I mounted up for a customer. As you can see, the 235 runs fairly wide and would be really pinched on a 17x7 wheel.

 
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