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Another SGM MKIII Build Dyno Thread!

24K views 99 replies 13 participants last post by  Von551 
#1 ·
In the sake of having information available to those who want to see random dyno testing that I do on my car, I've decided to open this thread here. I will simply copy and paste my previous posts here, and update only this thread for any performance testing/installs I do here. Up to mods discretion, naturally.

Here is my post from dyno testing this weekend:

Ok, wall of text to describe my data, then dyno charts below and analysis following.

First, the heat disclaimer. I didn't get the comparison between my originally posted dyno and these, but even on the SAE corrected numbers there is a constant 5hp/5ft lb decrease across the powerband. I believe that this is due to the 15+ degree increase from the last dyno runs and the current data. For dyno 8/9/10 I will post SAE, Uncorrected with Conditions; all others will just be SAE.

We tried to keep the dyno process as uniform as possible in order to keep the numbers as accurate as we could. The large variance in my initial dyno was due to making constant pulls with minimal cool-down, so we tried to avoid back-to-back pulls and also tried to avoid letting the car sit for long periods of time. Each different setup got one initial pull plus an additional pull to duplicate the graph. After the first three pulls (getting the DCT process ironed out), we collected data with the car in various setups to determine exactly where gains were seen. Dyno breakdown is as follows:

Runs 4/5- Oem configuration. Snorkel, borrowed filter, w/lunchbox

Runs 6/7- K&N drop-in, snorkel, w/lunchbox

Runs 8/9- K&N drop-in, snorkel delete, ram-ish mod, w/lunchbox

Run 10- K&N drop-in, snorkel delete, ram-ish mod, w/o lunchbox

Run 4:


Runs 5-7:


Runs 8-10 SAE:


Runs 8-10 Uncorrected/Conditions:


What have I learned from this data? Feel free to draw your own conclusions, but my determination is that our engine is nearly maxed out on air intake with the addition of the K&N drop-in and ram-ish mod. I say nearly because I do believe that the difference in my current setup when compared to other CAI's on the market will be covered upon the installation of the Griffin Ram Air (Newmission) mod. It appears to me, from the graphs that I have in comparison to manufacturer/members graphs, that we should be very similar in the end-state.

I do intend on fabricating an actual piece for my ram air, along with some pieces to augment the Griffin Mod, but the end-state will be the same as all of the piping will be of essentially the same diameter. I would be willing to bet that the Griffin Mod allows for enough air to not even need the ram-ish mod, but I'm going to do it anyways just because I can.

Also, as expected, the lunchbox delete did not contribute to any power increase. It does, however, remove some dead weight and contributes to a better (not perfect) sound. Definitely, imho, worth the minute of Sawzall (any Sawzall time is fun) time. I will be looking to pick up the required components to make a 2.25" dump right behind the rear drivers-side splash guard. I'm not shooting for the best looking exhaust, just something different than what everyone else is doing. And anything will beat the ugly stock turn-down.

Other noted issue: The removal of the exhaust leaves the already weakly supported (aka-flapping) rear valance even more of an air catch than before. I am going to fab a bent angle (nothing spectacular) to attempt to not only support it but hopefully deflect some of the under-car air from accumulating in that location. Maybe some pop-rivets to secure it. Someone really needs to come up with a diffuser to alleviate this issue.

Ok, wall-of-text over, thanks for reading. Feel free to discuss.[popcorn]
 
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#2 ·
Here is my dyno info from my previous run (cooler weather). This is a hybrid from my informational posts and dyno chart posts of the runs:

Started the morning on the dyno, with my buddies Tuxedo Black Ti waiting patiently so that I could get a baseline with the stock filter. Did a quick pull so that he could get going and came up with 142 hp on the OEM filter. This was the uncorrected number, and unfortunately we had set the calibration incorrectly so the torque number was unusable. Unless you care to believe that I made over 240 ft lbs. Then, it was a bad-azz Ti.

I threw the OEM filter back in my buddies car so that he could get off to his son's baseball game. I threw my K&N filter back in, we re-calibrated the dyno, and made a few more pulls. The most usable number was 156 hp, 144 ft lbs (SAE).

Here is the uncorrected chart-


Here is the SAE corrected chart-
 
#3 ·
Here is a pic of my snorkel-delete/ram-ish mod. Ghetto for right now, I'll fabricate something prettier and more functional in time.



Note: A little fuzzy, but you are looking under the black plastic shield that attaches to the upper radiator mount. The rubber piece that some are curious about is under the plastic piece (tackle box lid, I said it was ghetto already) and the opening of light is where the air enters under the drivers-side whisker. The plastic is jammed under the painted portion of the bumper and butts up against the radiator mount underneath the stock air inlet pass-through.
 
#5 ·
Lol, we basically did the same thing, awesome! My resonator hole is currently blocked too from when I was prepping for the Newmission mod and ran out of time.

So did you remove the whole plastic/rubber piece, or did you just cut it? I briefly looked in there, but didn't really have time to try and figure it out.
 
#15 ·
Yeah, I'm doing pretty much the same thing. The only real differences is that I am going to fab a fiberglass inlet that will fit up to the opening in the lower grill and that I have different hose to run into the box. Did you seal the hose at the box?
 
#20 ·
No problem, thanks for noticing!

I will be running another couple of dyno runs upon the completion of the Newmission Mod during cooler weather as I want to see what increases there will be from my current setup. I'm pretty confident that the total will be equal to that of the named CAI's, with the additional benefit of a marginal pressurization of the box at speed. I'm just currently stuck at the amount of air that my stock box has access to. Given temperature fluctuation, I will fabricate a block plate that will be able to close off whatever size hole I end up with at the box side of the mod. This should allow for a couple of runs without the larger hose connected as that days baseline, and also give a minor cool down while removing the plate and connecting the hose. Then, we should have actual numbers of the gain seen by the mod.

Idk, probably over-thinking it. I just like collecting and analyzing data.[facepalm]
 
#22 ·
I will have him shoot a copy of them, idk why he didn't. I also asked for the direct comparo of dyno's showing the temp difference, but didn't get those either.

I try to balance that 'friend hooking up another friend' with the 'data obsessed send me every-possible-graph'. ..
 
#23 · (Edited)
So I just checked with him and he said that we didn't collect AFR. The next time we get on the dyno we will get a couple runs including AFR on my current setup, and also collect it with the addition of the newmission mod.
 
#24 ·
Ok, quick update. I finally got a chance to fab up my scoop for the Newmission mod. It is curing up overnight and I will pull it off the mold for final fitment and paint tomorrow. I am meeting up with my buddy this weekend for some cosmetic work and to take some measurements, and while I'm on the lift we may roll it onto the dyno to run a few pulls and collect some more data. Previous pulls have been made without AFR, but future pulls will be collecting data on that as well.

If things fall through this weekend then it will probably occur next weekend.
 
#25 ·
Quick update. Same numbers as the last pull despite being 8° hotter with twice the humidity. Standard airflow. Two more pulls with air directed at the scool to simulate real world driving.

Afr is not collecting for some reason. Trying to get it sorted out.
 
#26 ·
Ok, finally got the graphs. Each one was sent separately (odd) but I'll post them nonetheless. He also sent the uncorrected, because that is what he and I use to evaluate, but for those that were interested the conditions were approximately 87 degrees, 30.02 hg, and 45% humidity.






TQ comparo-


HP comparo-


The first two runs were done with the Newmission mod as the addition, fan blowing on the radiator. The last two runs were done with the fan aimed at the scoop to simulate being driven. While the power difference is negligible, there is a tiny gain in being driven (self-explanatory).

Ultimately, the numbers are very much the same as without the Newmission mod. I don't feel that this is in any way a bad sign for the Newmission mod; I simply feel that I am currently exhaust limited by the stock set-up. Future tests, with a more open exhaust, will probably backtrack a step or so to see how the mod affects the car.

Final note-We did try collecting AFR data, but the machine is either inop or has a loose wire. During the first three runs it wasn't collecting anything, then I accidentally bumped it while climbing out of the car and it began showing 14.7. This would have been good had that actually changed while doing the pull (which it never did[facepalm])
 
#27 ·
First off, thank you Vluc for supplying this and I greatly appreciate your help and contribution in data collection.

For those not in the know I received a K&N Typhoon intake from forum member Vluc for some same-car dyno testing. I have been overly curious as to whether the homemade intakes would be comparable to the big-name manufacturers. My overall decision-it's kind of a draw. I'll explain why below, but here is a quick phone shot of the graphs from today. I will get clearer files later, but I wanted something to be able to post quickly.



Sorry for the crappy pic, but it gives a decent idea of the numbers I was looking at and the condition differences between runs. Basically, the first two runs I did were on my current setup (drop-in, ram-ish, Newmission). That is represented by run file 2 in the pic. Run file 3 was from the last set of dyno runs, as I was unsure of whether my first two of the day were affected by heat soak (I had been driving most of the morning and his dyno is across town). Run file 4 was the last of two pulls with the Typhoon installed, because there was a considerable amount of time to cool down while I did the install. It is highlighted in red.

The reason I called it a draw, despite the Typhoon clearly pulling more hp and tq, is due to the loss of power below 4200 rpm. Considering the fact that most people will be under that during their day-to-day use, the additional power down low is nice to have.

I was a little disappointed in my setup after seeing that the Typhoon blew it away above that rpm range. I was convinced that I was at the point of being exhaust limited, but after seeing this information I know that I have a different type of limitation in my setup (most likely the MAF housing to throttle body connection).

Anyways, that's the down-and-dirty. Feel free to discuss or ask questions and I will post the actual graphs after I receive them for a clearer picture.
 
#46 ·


The reason I called it a draw, despite the Typhoon clearly pulling more hp and tq, is due to the loss of power below 4200 rpm. Considering the fact that most people will be under that during their day-to-day use, the additional power down low is nice to have.
I don't see where the Typhoon curve dips below the Newmission at 4.2K RPM. It appears to me from this image that it is equal or above the Newmission, down to ~3.8K RPM.
 
#29 ·
Not when compared to stock, but when compared to my current setup of K&N drop-in, snorkel delete, ram-ish mod, and Newmission mod. There is about the same amount of loss below 3500-4200 rpm as there is gain above 4200 rpm.
 
#35 ·
Which pics are for the K&N? Do you have a side by side of the K&N and the Newmission? Sorry, I'm having trouble determining which pics are from which mod.

I still can't get over the fact that the Newmission has better hp and tq down low.
 
#36 · (Edited)
The only dyno on the pic with the K&N intake is the red line, dyno run 4. Dyno run 2 is my setup, and dyno 3 is my previous setup on Aug 4.

If you think you have it tough, imagine having to sort through all of the files I have...[facepalm]
 
#37 ·
The only dyno on the pic with the K&N intake is the red line, dyno run 4. Dyno run 2 is my setup, and dyno 3 is my previous setup on Aug 4.

If you think you have it tough, imagine having to sort through all of the files I have...[facepalm&%
Lol I can't even imagine. Do you get the run files? Wondering if you could import the data into Excel and run some analyses.
 
#38 ·
The k&n doesnt really take advantage of the newmission mod either because of the bottom plate, i wonder if that would help it. I have noticed more power out of my steeda since doing newmission mod.
 
#42 ·
Lol, that is definitely an option on the table considering that I do sheetmetal work. It is ultimately Vluc's intake, and that would probably affect resale (should that be the route he goes) due to the much smaller audience.

I got the dyno charts emailed and finally had a chance to get them downloaded. Here be they is-






Dyno runs 1 and 2 were with my previous setup, just run again to have same-day data for comparison.

Dyno runs 3 and 4 were with the K&N intake installed (approx an hour between runs 2 and 3 for install)

Run 5 was after disconnecting the battery, and was a bit less. I would imagine that after the car adjusts it's fuel trims and timing that everything would be normal again. I wish I hadn't done it (outside of the data reasoning) because now I gotta get my transmissions learn on again...lol.

Sorry that they are all located on the same sheet, just posting what he sent me. Some day I'm going to download the Dynojet program and all of the files so that I can pick and choose what data I want to look at and compare.

So...who's bringing the Steeda or AEM...[:)]
 
#44 ·
I am curious as to how the would affect the fuel mileage data. I don't think it would affect dyno numbers because of the hood-up condition.

Its really fun to watch the car freak out on the rollers. YOU'RE GOING OVER 100MPH WITH YOUR HOOD UP AND PARKING BRAKE ON!!![ohcrap]
 
#51 ·
Well, this is where things get a little tricky. The dyno won't (shouldn't) reflect any real change in numbers because it's done with the hood up. That being said, I'm highly curious as to how much this will or will not affect fuel mileage.

Now I will preface what I am about to say by stating that in no way am I trying to put down the K&N intake, it's design, or anything. I truly like the way it looks and the numbers are definitively better above 4.2k when compared to my current setup beyond the shadow of a doubt. I like all of the aftermarket intakes in some way, shape, or form.

That being said, I pulled my headlight and closed my hood in order to better examine the effectiveness of the setup. I couldn't get pics due to my dumb phone and lack of light, but the engine-bay air has multiple avenues to access the filter. Combined with the amount of sealing that has been done to the Mk3 engine bay, I can understand why some of the posters commented on possible heat-soak issues. Air will naturally follow the path of least resistance, so it would make sense that anyone with the setup that still has the snorkel installed will probably be paying a price for it.

With the amount of surface area that air can seep around to the filter, there *shouldn't* be much suction (if any) through the Newmission install. This is something I will be checking for once the mod is complete. What will change, however, is the temperature of the air available to the intake while the car is in motion. Time will tell, I do believe.
 
#53 ·
There is a snorkel that attaches to the front side of the radiator support to pull air from the right side of the car behind the right whisker. There are 3 push-pins that secure it, and when removed allow air to enter the plenum directly at the radiator support. I'll try and see if I can drum up some pics. OEM piece, not part of the kit.
 
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