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Forced Induction Cam Thread

9K views 83 replies 26 participants last post by  1turbofocus 
#1 ·
Ok this is everyone chance to talk about ,prove and show what they now about cams.What work best with turbo motor big cam small cam or stock cams.If you have a opinion or knowledge about whats best for FI cams post it here.I know everyone else wants to know.I know Ray at McNews sell some special FI cams and Crower makes some just for FI and Turbo Tom likes them stock.Just to remeber there is no name calling or bashing people
we [ffrocks] just wanna know what to use.
 
#28 ·
see now i would really like to see any kind of data on cams...i have a svt and as many know has a pretty aggressive cam to begin with but if cams could add some power i would def be willing to throw some in. I think that we should try to dig up some dynos and what not or hell even do a comparison dyno and show it...i know that cams take forever to put in and get going properly but if either one of your companies or anyones companies would show dynos backing up gains that WORTH the money im sure a lot more of us would install a set of cams. I think the reason that most or some are a little scepticle is because it is such a big job that requires percision that most dont have so they are unwilling to go off of word or theory and put them in. Thats all im saying and dont confuse any of this with bashing or taking sides that you companies which there so few compared to other car brands that support the focus should do some testing on cams...if not just for sales but for better information for the whole focus community.
Thanks for reading
Chris
 
#29 ·
Well said Chris, most of us will take the word of are engine builder and some don't.I love to listen and learn and that why we all have question.Combo of cams might work best and stock cams might work best if so I just want to unstand why [scratch]

but like Tom says (use a Deg. wheel to know for a fact that the cams are installed properly so -2 could end up meaning anything from 0 to +/- as much as 0/4 Deg) someone could install stock cams and they could be off -2 or +1 Deg.

Like K Dog says (Cam company's spend a lot of time, research and money
it would be hard to believe that they might just say hey that cam would be good for FI cars also look at the numbers) But I work at a big company I've seen it happen 100x times.

Remember keep this as a discussion not a fight [thankyou]
 
#31 ·
ok i want to use the newer crower II's when i go turbo and test what they can do on a F/I setup. i thought the HKS car was running them as well. now granted he has the FR intake manifold and a tubular exhaust manifold i'm not neccisarily looking for more HP/TQ just by running these cams... I'm looking for a higher rpm range. stock cams on zetecs max the powerband out around 6k, wherea the svt's are making power on boost up to 7k. i've checked the specs on stock svt cams with the crower II's and the profiles are only off a little. the svt cams have some overlap in them...so if they can run it, wouldn't a cam similar to that work with a turbo? im not trying to say my way is the best i just want you all to know i will be trying it with the crower II's in a few months
 
#33 ·
I think everybody is missing Toms point, He did say you can get up to 10 hp gain out of them but its not worth it to spend 350 on cams that will give you 10hp when all you have to do it turn the boost controller up 1 more psi for free. And maybe its worth that for SC people who cant turn up the boost any more.
 
#38 ·
I understand why spend $300-$400 for 5-10 hp

I want my rpm range to be 3000-7000 rpm

I have Crower stage 2s right now new in the box
and I'm building a motor I dont want to take the
cams out of my stock because I'm going to leave it the way it is.
So if I use stock cams I'll have to buy some.What do stock cams cost.

I bought both crane cams for $219
 
#50 ·
This one I liked the best of all , You would rather spend the customers money (350.00+) on a Can that adds less HP then just adding 1psi of boost and are you saying IF the cams added 10HP to equal the 10HP from the 1psi more boost the stress wouldnt be the same ? Stress (250HP) is stress (250HP) Dont matter where it comes from

Is this the guy you want building and working on your stuff ? ? ? ? ?

The Focus Pros ? ?

Tom
 
#35 ·
1psi is not that much stressing it...also cams put more stress on valves and all the valvetrain.

btw Zx3'dUrSvt the pumpkin has a custom short runner intake manifold...pretty much everything on that car is custom.

i have to agree with Tom here....there is gains to be made...10-12bhp maybe...but turn your BC up one click and bam same difference. HP IS HP...not matter how you get it.
 
#37 ·
ya exactly....if your planning on pushing THAT much boost you should be replacing crap anyway
 
#39 · (Edited)
As I am currently undertaking an FI project, I have been researching all kinds of options. I have crossed the cam issue myself, and decided to try the Crower 1's, as it is my belief one of the main purposes I want the cam for is to assist spooling the turbo sooner.

The stage 2 turbo grinds apparently have very similar powerbands when compared to the popular choices for turbos out there which makes for parts complimenting one another for those looking to make 275 and up whp.

The why spend it if you don't have to line of thinking naturally has merit. This stuff''s not cheap, nor any type of invenstment to make your money back on. So why spend it?

Well, more boost is more stress, but if you're in this with stock low ends, then the ceiling is achievable rather quickly. So, you should be built to take the inevitable. Thus the stress threshold costs money too (i.e turning up the boost).

Stock cams have been proven their value. They are a known commodity.
This, it is my belief, is more due to performance budgets than anything else.
I like many have followed the Focus FI story over the years and can attest
to the dollar/cost prohibiting factor as always being an issue. Yes, today we have a few good kits out there thankfully, and because of the leap in tuning technology, these kits come complete with base tunes to get you to a tuner.

And with technology comes those that dare to break barriers and set new standards for what is possible. And right here is where cams start becomming a player. Are they necessary....no. Do they offer a potential that has yet to be repetatively documented...no, atleast not publically. When few are testing the limits, secrets stay close to the chest. If more information becomes available as to the performance results with typical setups, then the proof becomes the driving force for further development to reach the next plateau.

Then there is just the basic " I want to have cams". It may not make sense dollar wise, or combination of parts wise, but the exercise just has to be taken for some. And for those who do, it's their money and time to play with.
If knowledge is gained...and shared...then the mystery begins to be solved.

The starter of this thread asked a simple question. Yet no real answers, only the to cam or not to cam bench racing. Where is Ray or Randy or Karl or any of the other non-business owners who've spent their money and time?
Are there no results to be shared with the rest of us? I'd be willing to bet the first guy to step up with a good combination that has dyno numbers to prove it will open the wallets of many enthusiasts sitting on the sidelines waiting to hear if/what/how cams will affect their setups.

Are the profiles in production working or not? Someone must know something by now. Share it with the rest of us. That's all this thread is asking.
 
#51 ·


dude k-dog you just got pwned soooooooo hard....nice work tom
 
#53 ·
Riiight. I got "pwned"?

I still have yet to receive the reponse from my earlier request:

"OK. So you saying I dont have emperical data, which you claim to have. Shut me up. Post it."

So bottom line - neither of us have the back to back Focus data to PROVE without a doubt our cases. Im using logic based on previous gains in other types of cars and perceived benefit on Foci.

Tom is basing his experience that stocks cams didnt hurt anything and of course personal trashing as usual.

Doesnt bother me.

Well, I have some testing to do, then we can reconvene our mud slinging match.
 
#55 ·
No sorry i dont base what I call "FACTS" on stock cams didnt hurt so why go to performance ones that sounds something like what you guys DID SAY about your testing , I have been tuning and testing the Focus sense 2000 and have done back to back testing with about every cam out there that would come close to working in FI. Why the crap should I help you guys out with the data I learned from weeks on the dyno and close to 150Hrs of testing. Your the self proclaimed Pros of the Focus world , You should know all this already and you wouldnt look so foolish with what your posting

As for shutting you up whay would i want to do that about everytime you open your mouth you show just how much more you truely dont know about the Focus and what it takes to keep it safe and run properly

As for what you call "personal trashing" is me correction misinformation at first I didnt even know who you were you have so many Diff screan names then when i found out who you were you , Being the self proclaimed Pros of the Focus world should of known better then to give the poor misinformation you posted and then turning around and telling everyone it was "facts" when you truely had nothing factual to back it up , Dont blame me for you looking foolish I only responded to what you typed down and tryed to correct it

Tom
 
#56 ·
I just want to add my 2 cents so please don't bash me.
I built my motor with what I felt to be the strongest parts for my budget. I also went to Massive for tuning, they did quite a job tuning it (although they got my battery cover and Atmosphere CD![bash] ) But it runs good and seems to be doing good.
So other then a few little things ill just keep to myself they did a great job and have always helped me out. I also know there are a lot of people out there that have tons of experience with the focus (Tom, Randy) But with the FR stg 2's in my car I think they were worth the buy. Maybe there not for everyone but to each their own right? If I could I would go to Tom's shop or Randy's but it's a pretty far drive.

So do I know they did everything right (I hope) Well I guess ill never know but I trust them so If it blows up was it my fault in building the motor? Or something in the tune? I guess ill never know.

I really don't like seeing all this fighting and trashing each other! We should stick together and give helpful tips and tricks to everyone isn't that what these forums are for?

So I just wanted to throw that in there and say I'm one person who has a lot of Auto Mechanics experience but no tuning experience, I'm happy with my cams and my PWSC.

Thanks
 
#61 ·
If you don't want to start anything why send me idiotic PM's like this.

" well just so you know with the dyno they use you get less hp then a roller dyno so how about you change your numbers from 270 or 280 to 296 since thats what I made on a dyno here just to check everything out. sorry buddy "


I'd like to know where you get this information. Put it on a Dynojet and let me know what it makes. You guys can't use Desktop Dyno to get accurate dyno charts.
 
#57 ·
Im glad your happy with your ride and respect your opinion because you dont know what works and what doesent work

You stated "But with the FR stg 2's in my car I think they were worth the buy."
What kind of HP gains would it take for it to be worth the 350 to 370.00 that you paid massive im guessing for the cams

The point im trying to make in all this is , People dont know what parts make power or dont make power so you ask your builder or tuner , Most tuners sell parts and thats how they make there money so there going to sell you on what they sell . Why ? because like in massives case they "claimed" to know "Fact" that the FR2 cams worked but have no testing to back it up , The Customer didnt know so he bought them. He, as stated is happy but I think if he knew that his 350.00+ $$$ netted him about 8HP or less he wouldnt be so happy about spending that much for so little

Tom
 
#65 ·
Im glad your happy with your ride and respect your opinion because you dont know what works and what doesent work

You stated "But with the FR stg 2's in my car I think they were worth the buy."
What kind of HP gains would it take for it to be worth the 350 to 370.00 that you paid massive im guessing for the cams

Tom

I didn't get them from massive I bought them from Ray, anyways I just wanted to up my n/a power and since I had them eh why not stick with them. I haven't seen a lot of people use them on a PW car so I gave it a shot. When it was n/a it was worth it but now I guess I could really care less. If I had my stockers I would've kept them in. Just wanted to try to squeeze any hp out of it I could.
 
#62 ·
Well, actually $27 per hp isn't that bad considering the cost per hp of other bolt-ons like intake, header, exhaust, udp, etc. However, most cams are in the range of $350-$400.

Like mentioned already tho, cams seem to have other benefits such as moving the power band higher and perhaps creating more efficiency in the engine. Also, on a supercharged application where efficient boost increase is limited, cams may be just the ticket to get that little extra hp we all crave [:)] And if that doesn't suffice, go nitrous or big turbo [:D]
 
#59 ·
I bought my Fr2's looking to improve my N/A power but then decided that turbo was the only way to go for real power. I will be bringing my Focus to Tom in just over a week. I'll have my stock cams in the trunk. It will be up to Tom if he wants to show FR2's vs Stock.

I agree that we should keep the thread diplomatic but at the same time I don't think anyone here can afford to get bad information.

I have read just about every thread and TOM's name is alway mentioned in a positive way. Everyone leaves NC with a smile and a fast Focus! That is fact enough for me!
 
#64 ·
^^wow stupidest response ever. you got the info from a dyno. prove it. ppl make tons of power on fofos and no one gets butt hurt.

mustang dynos are skewed numbers anyway cuz they need to inflate the ego of the pony car drivers
 
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