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Old 11-08-2013, 01:09 AM   #1
Tjrommel
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ST internals?

I am not sure how this would work out however: the block casting is different ($200 difference in the ecoboost/NA). The Bore/Stroke of our engines are the same. The part# for the crank is the same so will the stock forged internals from the ST transfer over to our cars? If so, would we get bumped down to the 10:1 compression they're running or does that have to do with the head/valvetrain? On that note, would the internals from previous duratecs work for us since the bore/stroke is the same?

The ST internals are around $90/cylinder (rods/rings/pins/pistons, the whole she-bang)

Duratec kits are north of $450 for the most part.

If I go with forged internals, what would the limiting factor be for our cars? Can't draw enough air in? Fuel? spark? I have done research on milling out the inside of the throttle body however it doesn't have a thick wall so i'd be limited there and the machining of one is beyond my skill level with the complexity of the drive by wire system so I have thought of coming up with a venturi based intake system that would essentially push as much air as the engine can possibly take (if I am correct on this, if done properly with a large enough collector we could be running the equivilant of ~.5psi of boost but the plumbing for it would be large and excessive. For fuel, the block casting is the same as the st for Injector ports and our pumps are the same. There is a company by the name of mountune that offers larger injectors capable of supplying fuel for upto 350hp (which I have no intentions of getting that high) . My car is worthless due to somone playing grand theft auto in a ram 3500 dually hitting me 4 times. Might as well have fun


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Old 11-12-2013, 11:01 AM   #2
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Forged internals are really only good/worth it if you are moving towards a higher static compression (14:1) or if you are adding forced induction.

Internal upgrades that are worth while (if money isn't a big thing) for NA engines:
1.higher compression pistons, upgrade to molly rings at that point
2. Port/polished head
3. Larger intake and exhaust valves
4. Race intake and exhaust cams
5. A tune

External upgrades such as an intake and exhaust will help but internal upgrades are what really drive the engine (lol). I think keeping the stock compression ratio, finding if we could shave a little off the head to increase CR and then larger valves + tune is the way to go. Valves aren't too bad cost wise. I know machine shops can charge a couple hundred ($200ish) for port/polish. Once you have better head flow, you should really have a tune. The next, and probably more expensive of the bunch is more aggresive camshafts.

I think with the port/polish and bigger valves with a tune could get this car a lot closer to 200whp. Maybe when I am out of warranty I might get bored and have a few extra $$ but who knows.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:44 PM   #3
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well... my $17,000 car just had 13,000 in bodywork done as some jackass was playing grandtheft auto in real life >.> His insurance company wouldn't total my car so I a stuck with virtually no resale value. If I continue working this amount for a month or so the plan is:

ST internals, I just ordered 1 cylinder worth as well as our internal so I can compare them (I am a welder in an aluminum machine shop ftw)

Garrett GT28

I'll fab up the plumbing out of 308 stainless (2.25" OD) (got plenty laying around shop for various bs jobs)

Header out of Chromoly (good heat resistance and smooth high flow)

Mountune has uprated injectors for the ST (ST/NA have same P/N for fuel pump so I am assuming it's a direct replacement)

Standalone ECU (if necessary I have to talk to a tuner or 2 for reccomendations (probably Tom))

Our car comes with an LSD (to my knowledge)

SPEC makes a SMF and stage 3 clutch kit for the ST (the NA/ST have same P/N for Flywheel)

Plan is (assuming the ST is low CR internals and head clearance is the same) I should be at ~10:1 CR running 15lbs of boost.

The power goal is 300whp/320 ft/lb (minimum)

I have to wait to get my car back first though lol (4-5 weeks in the shop)
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:45 PM   #4
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Is porting really worth it with out upsized valves/springs?
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:05 PM   #5
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The st head is completely different than the NA. The car uses the abs system to simulate an lsd
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:15 PM   #6
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I know the head is different as the manifold us cast as one piece. I was referring to head ND valve clearance on both heads I am sure it's the same. And yes, I know the St block and ours are different castings.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:26 AM   #7
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I dunno if our block can hold boost but hats off to you for doing it haha
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Old 11-14-2013, 11:15 AM   #8
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I don't have pictures on my phone but I have a really poorly cast block lol, there is dross inclusions on surface. The block isn't what I'm worried about though. The aluminum will be able to raw the heat out efficiently. I don't know if I will have to figure out a TIVCT delete. If you look up the articles on it, the lobes on thecams are massive to be more efficient. I think the biggest issue will be figuring out a way to meet emissions standards for a daily driver
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