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Old 10-01-2013, 07:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ripto View Post
Ahhh really... I didn't know it was removed. How about that.
I think it was more of a legal thing, you put in 93 and don't see a difference and then go complain that you don't have better performance like the manual claims.

I have run everything from 87-93 and I couldn't tell the difference without tuning and mods.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:57 PM   #22
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If you put in 87 and do a run on a dyno then remove and replace with 93 you will see more TQ and HP and less knock

If you tune for 87 it will have less timing then tuned for 93 , proper timing = more TQ and HP
Is this going to = 10 tq/hp that you might be able to feel maybe not but its there , a but dyno is the worst dyno to test your car on

I own a dynojet dyno and been tuning for 30+ years I have seen this hundreds of times 93 almost always makes more HP then 87

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Old 10-01-2013, 08:29 PM   #23
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I ran 93 to pull timing for nitrous. I know the higher octane retards timing a touch, my mental thought is to have more timing would be better. Looks like Tom is putting some great info in this thread.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:32 PM   #24
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I ran 93 to pull timing for nitrous. I know the higher octane retards timing a touch, my mental thought is to have more timing would be better. Looks like Tom is putting some great info in this thread.
Um say what?

Higher octane allows for more advanced ignition timing not retarded timing. Retarding the ignition timing is good for lower octane fuel.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:56 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
If you put in 87 and do a run on a dyno then remove and replace with 93 you will see more TQ and HP and less knock

If you tune for 87 it will have less timing then tuned for 93 , proper timing = more TQ and HP
Is this going to = 10 tq/hp that you might be able to feel maybe not but its there , a but dyno is the worst dyno to test your car on

I own a dynojet dyno and been tuning for 30+ years I have seen this hundreds of times 93 almost always makes more HP then 87

Tom
Absolutely I agree, especially with tuning, I wasn't saying it wouldn't make more power, I was saying it wouldn't make enough extra power on the butt dyno to be noticeable with stock parts. My first post was a bit of hyperbole, with saying there isn't more power, and the only comparison I have seen is on Red's car when SCT did their test tune, and he gained 16HP from no tune 87 to tuned 93, so just switching octanes has to be less than that. Is a 10% or less gain going to change his driving experience?

The OP has a 5MT so he is going to be able to downshift and be able to make good power even on 87. But I agree with you that 93 won't hurt and he should do it.
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:58 PM   #26
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my mental thought is to have more timing would be better. Looks like Tom is putting some great info in this thread.
More is better, now I am curious to see if the engine will adjust for more on its own without tuning. Tom knows his stuff, no argument there.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:17 PM   #27
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Um say what?

Higher octane allows for more advanced ignition timing not retarded timing. Retarding the ignition timing is good for lower octane fuel.
91/93 will pull timing, you will need to add timing. If I have this wrong I am sorry. I always ran 93 when I sprayed my Camaro, as with a 175HP it would pull the timing to what I needed it to be. I sprayed my Camaro quite a bit without an issue, so I think/hope I got it right, that or my Camaro is an animal thirsting for a 225HP shot on a stock block.


Also going along with the pulling timing, isn't premium ever so slightly harder to combust or holds its liquid state longer?
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:21 PM   #28
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91/93 will pull timing, you will need to add timing. If I have this wrong I am sorry. I always ran 93 when I sprayed my Camaro, as with a 175HP it would pull the timing to what I needed it to be. I sprayed my Camaro quite a bit without an issue, so I think/hope I got it right, that or my Camaro is an animal thirsting for a 225HP shot on a stock block.
The engine shouldn't pull timing from running a fuel that is more resistant to combustion. That makes no sense. It may not know to advance the timing from the 87 octane baseline on a car that was only calibrated to run on 87 octane, especially for your Camaro or old (pre 2012) Focus. This is not true with the Ti-VCT engine in the 2012+ Focus N/A or ST. The computer will continue to add timing up to until the point of knock on higher octane fuel, not retard timing.
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Old 10-01-2013, 09:33 PM   #29
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I can't find my exact sources. There deep in LTXTECH but I remember the Tuner on that forum recommended premium to help reduce the chances of a timing pull. I mean I could be wrong, and If I am I have no problem accepting it. I just threw out an idea in my head.
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Old 10-05-2013, 09:28 PM   #30
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E85 offers supper high octane levels and would be safer from that standpoint then. But yes for those reasons 93 is better, but if his engine is not knocking in the first place it is not needed. That being said I agree for the $4 or $5 a tank that will be paid for the trip it can't hurt.
How much is the timing turned back running 87 in a 12:1 engine?

Thats the main reason I run premium. Yes the computer can compensate for the 87, but it does so by retarding the timing.
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