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Old 08-14-2013, 08:42 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
Thanks. I agree that's about the best alternative to the Focus out there. I'm surprised at your claim "interior to me is better quality, quieter and more advanced technology." I haven't driven a 3 back to back with my Focus (rented one a few years ago), but I thought this area was the 3's achilles heel.
I'm no mazda expert, this is my first one and also though I'm an IT professional, I don't care much about do dads, just enjoying my drive.(cornering, acceleration, reliability of both)
That being said this is a bottom end mazda-3 2013 hatchback VS my 2012 focus SE and I see
mazda has dual front ac controls passenger and driver
electronic key is sensed by car and push button start/stop , open doors and lock car never once using a key
Iphone usb port charges phone and plays music thru radio and dash/wheel controls iphone music.
But this is all secondary to driveability and fun on the road to me.

Last edited by mr_cassandra; 08-14-2013 at 08:43 AM. Reason: typo and more data
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:10 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_cassandra View Post
I stand very corrected on vw-audi, thanks ghia and kam for this information.

Sadly I think it makes this discussion all the grimmer, as regards anyone owning a dual clutch transmission.
Well, maybe not. The European Focus uses a wet-clutch DCT for diesel models and has for some time. There doesn't seem to be an undercurrent of owner unhappiness with it, though maybe we're just not plugged into that owner base.

There was an article here many months ago about reliability of cars in Germany and the new gen Focus came out nearly on top and above all Mercedes and BMW models, iirc. Don't think that would be the case if there were DCT/DSG issues like VW's or the NA Focus.

Here, even Consumer Reports rated the 2012 Focus as "average" for major trans trouble, and "worse than average" (not "much worse") for minor trans issues. So not good, but not a calamity either.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:13 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by mr_cassandra View Post
That being said this is a bottom end mazda-3 2013 hatchback VS my 2012 focus SE and I see mazda has dual front ac controls passenger and driver electronic key is sensed by car and push button start/stop
Looks like the base 5-Door is nicely equipped but sticker reflects that - begins at $21,645 with auto. A full feature versus price comparison would be interesting but...... I'm not that interested.
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Old 08-14-2013, 11:18 AM   #44
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Thanks for the suggestion on premium fuel kab, but that would totally invalidate why I and most people bought the car, that being its advertisied ability to have high mileage on regular gas.
I wasn't suggesting it (please read my post again). I simply asked if you had tried it.
I believe that it's better to try to understand a problem rather than just complaining about it.


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Also I traded my focus 2 weeks ago for a comparable offering from another manufacturer and I guess I didn't realize how much that transmission was ruining my days, as I waited for each shudder and shake or indecisive shift.
The issue with your Focus wasn't the DCT, it was service.
I hope that your new "comparable offering" dealer offers better service than your previous one.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:16 PM   #45
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Direct Injected Dual Clutch Transmission (DIDCT)?

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Originally Posted by Timthom62 View Post
... As most of the issues trace back to the clutches, if you came up with a liquid Freon cooling system for the clutch module, I think you'd be in business.
Or, rather than Freon, maybe a shot of acetone brake cleaner once in a while would help. Adding nozzles to inject the cleaner directly would save the effort of disassembling the whole transmission periodically.

If Ford were to add this revision in the future, they could automate it by detecting "clutch shudder events" in real time, like engine anti-knock sensors are used to automatically adjust ignition timing. Think of the marketing campaign Ford could use, too. "The only car brand to use the new and excitingly advanced Direct Injected Dual Clutch Transmission (DIDCT)! (I hope no one is taking me seriously. )
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:20 PM   #46
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Bad service was not the root cause.

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... The issue with your Focus wasn't the DCT, it was service. ...
But it was the DCT that required that service in the first place. Bad service can compound the problem, but is not its source.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:46 PM   #47
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I agree about the premium - if I wanted to pay 15% more for fuel I would've just gotten a car that runs much more smoothly on regular that gets 15% less fuel economy. ...
Isn't that "six of one and half a dozen of t' other"?

The problems people are having should not be happening, but they are. They should not have to pay 15% more for fuel (is any of that cost offset by improved mpg?), but isn't it at least worth trying to see whether it helps? At least for a few tanks.

Even if you added 15% to the fuel cost for the life of the car, that may still end up being less than the alternatives. (Getting rid of the car and replacing it, lawsuit, self-financed modifications or repairs, etc.) I haven't done the calculations, but if I were in that spot I would be doing them. (I dislike dealing with lawyers about as much as I do dealing with new car service departments.)
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Old 09-17-2013, 05:22 PM   #48
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Replaced a many of these clutchs. Just updated one today and had a different program. The adaptive learning portion of the reprogram was eliminated.
Can anyone else confirm this? I had a feeling that this was the problem. EVERY time I take the car in for any kind of transmission issue, they say they find nothing and reset and or upgrade the software. The car then drives fantastic for a day or so, then it goes back to being a spaz. I've found too that disconnecting the battery for a minute and then re-attaching it results in the same crisp shifting and driveability.

In every other automatic car that I've driven there doesn't seem to be any "adaptive learning" at all. Take the auto Mazda 3 for instance; you press the pedal a certain amount and it reacts a particular way. Press the pedal the same amount a week later (or whenever) and it does the same thing it did last time. With the Focus I've never had any idea how the car was going to react to pedal inputs.

I REALLY hope that adaptive learning is gone. It seems to be nothing but trouble.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:24 PM   #49
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When in doubt, throw it out?

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Originally Posted by xwhit3devilx View Post
Can anyone else confirm this? I had a feeling that this was the problem. EVERY time I take the car in for any kind of transmission issue, they say they find nothing and reset and or upgrade the software. The car then drives fantastic for a day or so, then it goes back to being a spaz. I've found too that disconnecting the battery for a minute and then re-attaching it results in the same crisp shifting and driveability.

In every other automatic car that I've driven there doesn't seem to be any "adaptive learning" at all. Take the auto Mazda 3 for instance; you press the pedal a certain amount and it reacts a particular way. Press the pedal the same amount a week later (or whenever) and it does the same thing it did last time. With the Focus I've never had any idea how the car was going to react to pedal inputs.

I REALLY hope that adaptive learning is gone. It seems to be nothing but trouble.
Those other automatic transmissions you refer to have a torque converter to take up the slack that anyone (including the TCM for the DCT) driving a manual transmission has to adapt to.

When you drive two different cars with manual transmissions you quickly learn the differences between them, like where in the clutch pedal travel the engagement begins and completes. Since the DCT is a manual transmission that is shifted by a computer rather than the driver, it seems like the TCM would have to have something like that. Otherwise, how will it deal with changes over time due to wear, or differences in manufacturing tolerances from one car to the next?

Seems to me that if it's broke they need to fix it, not throw it out. What is going to take its place to allow for those kinds of differences?

By the way, it is a misconception that the TCM learns someone's driving habits. It learns the characteristics of the car.
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