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Old 06-24-2013, 10:19 AM   #11
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I was surprised to see the 16" OEM sport wheels were only 19lbs so I was concerned going to a 17" but only added a pound and a half per corner.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 200mph View Post
That's excellent advice... its the reduction of rotating mass on the drive axle that produces gains in acceleration and MPG's, etc, while unsprung weight loss results in crisper, sharper handling.

There's two ways to make your car quicker: (1) improve HP and torque, or, (2) give the engine less work to do. Agreed this is a first priority, and while I love the look of the Focus Ti wheel, I'll be looking for more than a 1 pound per corner improvement.

To finish the MINI story... Car & Driver tested an early MINI Cooper S convertible, and they wrote they couldn't understand why it was the quickest MINi they had tested to date. Simple: the ragtop had the 16" 5-stars, while their previous test cars all had the 17" Minilite-reps.

Thanks!

Mike
I don't blame you. I also pulled off my 5-spokes in the sake of better performance. I still wanted to have 18" wheels, so I went with the Team Dynamics Pro-Race 1.2's which are approximately 19.6 lbs a corner. Worth every penny, and more especially so given the amount of customization options you have with them at their price point.
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Old 11-04-2013, 02:23 AM   #13
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)))regarding oem wheel weight((( since posting i've read through the little booklets etc that came with this 'new', it's a 2014, car & in one of the spec guides related to the ST says the wheels are 25lbs. that's still significantly heavy & have found some wheels that will knock off about 9 lbs per wheel (8.75 lbs each corner) gonna go with a 17x7.5" motegi racing wheel & get all season tyres. after reading details regarding wheels/tyres it clearly states in manual that oem tyres are for mostly dry, summer driving & has wear rate of 240, that's essentially sticky race rubber that doesn't like weather under 40 degrees or wet conditions.


i road race motorcycles & the 1st thing we do w/everything is lighten up all rotating mass. sprung weight is even more critical to trim.
after seeing oem wheel weight you guys can literally do some math to figure out how much time/mileage it'll take for wheels weighing just a bit more than 1/2 the oem wheel weight. this translates in mpg increase that will many times pay for the upgraded wheels within 6 months. i've had really good luck with motegi racing which is made by american racing & typically around 16-17 1/2 lbs per wheel. the oem wheels weighing in @ a portly 31 lbs per corner are very stout tuff oem wheels. but might as well be dragging brakes all the time due to so much rotating mass.
this from enkei wheel site
Enkei Wheels - Racing Series Wheels - RPF1 (http://www.enkei.com/rpf1.shtml)
"MAT PROCESS: Shaping by the MAT process reduces wheel weight by 10%-15%. Every pound of unsprung weight savings has the effect of reducing overall vehicle weight by 20lbs."

so by reducing the wheel weight 13.5 lbs per wheel would be equal to trimming 270 lbs of static weight 'per wheel'. that's 1080 lbs will let ya'll know how much the fuel mileage improves so others can do similar calculations

it's amazing how much cutting rotating sprung mass can do for handling, braking much deeper, acceleration & just making everything easier on the engine etc.



some of my road racing
http://www.hookit.com/members/bridgetown/

Last edited by ~dodge; 11-05-2013 at 02:19 PM. Reason: 2014 info claims 18x8 oem wheels weigh 25 lbs not 31
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:11 AM   #14
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Wow its amazing to me how many people race professionally here.. worrying how to shave off a few pounds just to cut those extra all important milliseconds..
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~dodge View Post
this from enkei wheel site
Enkei Wheels - Racing Series Wheels - RPF1 (http://www.enkei.com/rpf1.shtml)
"MAT PROCESS: Shaping by the MAT process reduces wheel weight by 10%-15%. Every pound of unsprung weight savings has the effect of reducing overall vehicle weight by 20lbs."

so by reducing the wheel weight 13.5 lbs per wheel would be equal to trimming 270 lbs of static weight 'per wheel'. that's 1080 lbs
Right basic idea, but your math is off. Way off.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:32 PM   #16
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Very informative, tnx all !
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:12 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by ST 2K5 View Post
Wow its amazing to me how many people race professionally here.. worrying how to shave off a few pounds just to cut those extra all important milliseconds..
& this is just related to sprung rotating mass. with non-rotating unsprung mass aka static weight; every 6lb of reduction is like gaining 1 horse power.

least expensive w/the biggest performance improvement for the dollar results from cutting rotating mass everywhere & anywhere you can. obviously something that needs to have a certain strength for loads shouldn't be as exploited or compromised.

wheels & tires, especially when trimming lbs. of the rotating sprung mass will result in seconds, not 10ths of seconds, on road course lap times. on the bikes; i've gone as far as using titanium bolts on each front rotor to cut another 1lb from the front wheel. braided steel lines/race brake fluid/racing brake pads will also further reduce lap times.
going with pca-1 math, vehicle should be gaining a couple of tenths every quarter mile of track. that'll easily add up to seconds on typical 2-2.4 mile course.......
just for fun; here's the front wheel on 600cc sportbike making 111rwhp on regular pump gas. bike weigh just a bit over 550 w/me & my gear on it. wave rotors knocked off about 3 lbs/titanium bolts 1lb/front wheel 2 1/2lbs less/the calipers are even lighter & since linked/moving w/ front suspension also considered 'sprung' weight.


the oem ST wheels weigh 25 lbs the eagle f1 235/40-18 weigh 25lbs each. was just getting a winter wheel & tyre set up & naturally looking @ the numbers....
tyres weigh in @ 20lbs. the 16" 5 spoke wheel are 17lbs totaling 37 lbs. that's a full 13lbs. using the enkei math mentioned above, w/each lb being equal to 20; that'd be equal to trimming 260 lbs from your static/unsprung weight. usually snow tires decrease your fuel mileage & increase rolling resistance. w/tire itself being 5 lbs lighter i wouldn't be surprised to see mpg increase

good year ultra grip 205/55R16
91T SL None 1356 lbs.
51 psi
13/32"
20 lbs. 5.5-7.5"








Quote:
Originally Posted by jsr72 View Post
Right basic idea, but your math is off. Way off.
my math is as sound as a pound; fellow fanatic
might wanna give your calculator a second look.....

quoting forum vendor "PCA-1" to confirm the math is accurate or further support that cutting 1lb of rotational sprung mass is equal to removing 20lbs of non rotating aka static weight/mass. just as enkei 'claims' for their F1 based wheels
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309597
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCA-1
"For Focus ST owners, the stock 18x8/5x108/55mm ST wheel weighs 25lbs. By switching to the 18x8 Pro Race 1.2, the reduction of rotational mass through wheel weight is equivalent to a 200lb weight reduction in vehicle weight/2 tenths in the 1/4 mile. As well, the reduction in unsprung weight allows the suspension to work less, improving reflexes and extending use."
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ~dodge View Post
my math is as sound as a pound; fellow fanatic
might wanna give your calculator a second look.....

quoting forum vendor "PCA-1" to confirm the math is accurate or further support that cutting 1lb of rotational sprung mass is equal to removing 20lbs of non rotating aka static weight/mass. just as enkei 'claims' for their F1 based wheels
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309597
To save 20lbs of equivalent weight per vehicle by removing 1lb of weight per each tire/wheel, means that each 1lb of rotating tire/wheel must contribute 5lbs of equivalent weight to the vehicle, when accelerating.

Basic physics says this is impossible.

If all the mass of a tire/wheel assembly were concentrated on the outermost edge of the tire (the highest rotating inertia), the equivalent weight would only be twice the actual weight. This means 1lb of saving in the tire/wheel would only save 2lbs x 4 = 8lbs equivalent weight for the vehicle. Obviously we can't (nor would we want to) make such a tire/wheel, so the real savings become even less.

A good rule of thumb is the equivalent rotating mass is an additional 30-40% for a wheel and an additional 95% for a tire.
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by jsr72 View Post
To save 20lbs of equivalent weight per vehicle by removing 1lb of weight per each tire/wheel, means that each 1lb of rotating tire/wheel must contribute 5lbs of equivalent weight to the vehicle, when accelerating.

Basic physics says this is impossible.

If all the mass of a tire/wheel assembly were concentrated on the outermost edge of the tire (the highest rotating inertia), the equivalent weight would only be twice the actual weight. This means 1lb of saving in the tire/wheel would only save 2lbs x 4 = 8lbs equivalent weight for the vehicle. Obviously we can't (nor would we want to) make such a tire/wheel, so the real savings become even less.

A good rule of thumb is the equivalent rotating mass is an additional 30-40% for a wheel and an additional 95% for a tire.
http://hpwizard.com/rotational-inertia.html
i've been educating myself w/more info on this topic. & after reading thru some of the calculations etc. linked above, guess enkeis numbers are indeed a bit generous.
appreciate your patience regarding the discussion. it's something i'm obviously pretty passionate about. have been studying inertia & wheel weight since a child bmx racer & am always looking for any advantage against competition. also, something regarding location of weight to as you stated further from the hub is physically heavier than @ the hub or vice versa.... been having trouble sleeping w/a new mistress in the garage. am confident ya'll will know where i'm coming from there.
wheels are such an inexpensive mod & puts money in your pocket from saving fuel mileage. never understood when you're gonna do 15k miles a year why it's so over-looked & misunderstood w/most car owners. like the rage for the huge 22" wheels on muscle cars. to see the waste of real performance is almost aggravating
only a couple of hundred miles logged so far & can't believe ford waited SOOOOOOOOO long to release this car to the american market was discussing w/a buddy, that's also been waiting for these, & 1st thing asked was why isn't it offered in awd??? in the great n.w. where any winter day can lead to black ice it'd be a nice option to have w/in reach
i did a wheel/tyres swap on another car saving close to 30% & it improved fuel mileage by a little more than 3 mpg cruising @ freeway speeds. w/fuel being over 3$ a gallon & no end in sight; saving is important to me
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:20 AM   #20
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double post. mods please feel free to remove-
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