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Old 06-19-2013, 03:07 PM   #211
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The problem with all this is that Ford has a reputation here. One of NOT being a luxury vehicle, but they are running into the luxury price ranges on these vehicles.

Unfortunately, the quality of materials do not quite match up to said other luxury brands.

Take a look around and see all the older Focus generations on the road, then look at the new Focus. Granted, it hasn't been out that long, and yes, worldwide it is a best seller, but not here in the states. It is slow selling because they are reaching a point where they are going to price it out of the market. Same thing happened to the Camaro, which is why it went away for several years.

Ford is going to have to offer some deep incentives to get these cars to move here in the states. People here are not used to paying 25k-30k for a car they consider to be an econobox. Unlike Europe.
According to the Ford website, the starting MSRP for a Focus is $16,200.

I fail to see how the existence of the Ti (which may cost $25K+ with options) would deter someone from buying a Focus SE for $18000.
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:11 PM   #212
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This will be interesting if it does.

Focus ST owners (99.99% of which traded in their MK3 Focus for their ST) will now be trading in their ST for a RS.
This seems like a very suspect number, just because there were a few people on this forum that had gone from an MK3 to an MK3 ST doesn't make it close to a 99.99% conversion rate with no outside conquest sales. That just sounds made up to me.
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:27 PM   #213
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This seems like a very suspect number, just because there were a few people on this forum that had gone from an MK3 to an MK3 ST doesn't make it close to a 99.99% conversion rate with no outside conquest sales. That just sounds made up to me.
You are right. I was being facetious.

However, it will be interesting to see how many ST owners will want to do a trade in for a RS.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:45 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CriticalMass View Post
The problem with all this is that Ford has a reputation here. One of NOT being a luxury vehicle, but they are running into the luxury price ranges on these vehicles.

Unfortunately, the quality of materials do not quite match up to said other luxury brands.

Take a look around and see all the older Focus generations on the road, then look at the new Focus. Granted, it hasn't been out that long, and yes, worldwide it is a best seller, but not here in the states. It is slow selling because they are reaching a point where they are going to price it out of the market. Same thing happened to the Camaro, which is why it went away for several years.

Ford is going to have to offer some deep incentives to get these cars to move here in the states. People here are not used to paying 25k-30k for a car they consider to be an econobox. Unlike Europe.
1. Ford sold 245,922 foci last year, (2012) They hadn't sold over 200k Foci in a year since 2004. (The last year we had the same car as Europe.) Ford messed up with the Focus from 05-11 by NOT making it nice, by cutting corners. The MK1 focus was a car and driver best. The MK3 is again.

2. Ford is selling tons loaded Foci, Titaniums, and STs loaded at $30k right now. You see a lot of STs on lots because they aren't limited production, ford will make and sell as many as they can.

3. Take a look at Evos and STis. Crap interiors, junk stereo, basic options, but 300hp performance cars, and people pay $30k+ for them. Golf Rs are $30k+, hell a Mini Cooper S JCW starts at $30k (and are frequently optioned close to $40k.)

Sorry buddy, you are wrong.

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This seems like a very suspect number, just because there were a few people on this forum that had gone from an MK3 to an MK3 ST doesn't make it close to a 99.99% conversion rate with no outside conquest sales. That just sounds made up to me.
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Old 06-20-2013, 05:18 PM   #215
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I honestly don't care one way or another anymore. If they sell it I'll look at and go...hmm, that's cool but like most of America I won't buy one. Ford USA is always dithering back and forth about selling us the cars other countries get, then IF they sell it in the USA it will be missing half the cool stuff it has elsewhere. The bean counters always win here and in the end they produce spectacularly mediocre and homogenized cars in the process.

In the case of the RS they may or not sell it elsewhere too. Most of Europe is floundering in the wake of conservative austerity economics that have trashed the economy of the EU as a whole so they may not get it either. Meh, I'm beyond caring about new cars anymore. All the car companies can go take a great leap off a tall building as far as I'm concerned, especially Ford, and see who hits first.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:32 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylesvt720 View Post

2. Ford is selling tons loaded Foci, Titaniums, and STs loaded at $30k right now. You see a lot of STs on lots because they aren't limited production, ford will make and sell as many as they can.

3. Take a look at Evos and STis. Crap interiors, junk stereo, basic options, but 300hp performance cars, and people pay $30k+ for them. Golf Rs are $30k+, hell a Mini Cooper S JCW starts at $30k (and are frequently optioned close to $40k.)

I can't agree more with your point #1 but I'm going to poke some holes in your other two just to stir the pot

#2. Ford estimated they would sell 8000 and I don't think they are even over 4000 and some of those sitting on lots have been there for several months. It's also about location so in the east I expect to see more Foci and STs in general but around here the Focus is quite popular but STs on the streets are still pretty scarce.

#3. The EVO's interior is pretty bad but at least the STI did gussey it up a bit and the guage cluster is very nice but yes Subaru and Mitsubishi put most of the cost into their drivetrains and performance areas and are pretty bullet proof and proven HP gains are pretty modest for your cash outlay plus they do have a bit of history and a following and along with a very supportive aftermarket people will throw almost $40k at one.
The Focus RS has a fringe following here in the US and the aftermarket still is in it's infancy for the ST plus there is a public stigmatism when you say Focus (econobox persona) and most of the competition didn't take notice til they released an SVT (no follow up) and then was quickly forgotten til the release of the MK3 ST so despite what you see on these forums the ST is still getting things stirring.

Mitsu and Subaru both owe a lot to Gran Turismo by helping build a fan base fro the EVO and WRX long before they hit these shores and that fan base has grown up and is buying these cars. My friend's dad bought a WRX back in 2000 and it was a big deal for what really was a simple car but to see a WRX in the states was a site with the sport compact scene hitting it's stride.

Mini fans...well,they are Mini fans and will gobble up all these options and limited editions of any model they release and will pay $40k for a good handling slow car. They also appeal to a pretty wide fan base outside the rabid group of fans.
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Old 06-20-2013, 10:34 PM   #217
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Just FYI, build numbers and distribution numbers have been made.

I will trade/Sell the ST170 in 2015 for an RS. The ST is the wife's car so she can do with it as she wants.

BTW, 3 people wnt to Mexico and purchased MKII RS's. One of those RS's, Ford requested that they bring it to shows and other PR events. Mind you there are at least 5 of these cars in Dearborn, but they requested private owner(s) to bring their cars for PR events. Ford will sell at least 80% of the RS's they plan to build.

I really want to see what the regulations are for WRC in 2015 as this will also add to the reasoning for the RS build numbers and release markets. It would also justify going back to a I4t 2.0L as well.

There are a lot more factors in just coming up with a number and slapping it in a body and calling it good.
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:17 AM   #218
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Quote:
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I can't agree more with your point #1 but I'm going to poke some holes in your other two just to stir the pot

#2. Ford estimated they would sell 8000 and I don't think they are even over 4000 and some of those sitting on lots have been there for several months. It's also about location so in the east I expect to see more Foci and STs in general but around here the Focus is quite popular but STs on the streets are still pretty scarce.

#3. The EVO's interior is pretty bad but at least the STI did gussey it up a bit and the guage cluster is very nice but yes Subaru and Mitsubishi put most of the cost into their drivetrains and performance areas and are pretty bullet proof and proven HP gains are pretty modest for your cash outlay plus they do have a bit of history and a following and along with a very supportive aftermarket people will throw almost $40k at one.
The Focus RS has a fringe following here in the US and the aftermarket still is in it's infancy for the ST plus there is a public gma when you say Focus (econobox persona) and most of the competition didn't take notice til they released an SVT (no follow up) and then was quickly forgotten til the release of the MK3 ST so despite what you see on these forums the ST is still getting things stirring.
#2. They may be scarce in CO, but when I lived there all american cars are far more scarce. I see 5+ STs a day. (But I do live in Michigan.) As for the production number quotes, I'd have to see where you get that info from.

#3 STi interiors are crap. Their stereos and nav setups are crap. Have you sat in one? The base Focus blows that away. Are they quick? You bet. Do they have a good drivetrain? You bet. I don't see how that detracts from the Focus ST and possible RS drivetrains?

Yes Subi/Mitsu have big aftermarkets, because they've been around a while. Yes the focus has a bit of a stigma (not an astigmatism) related to it. If you know anything about Subaru, up until the early 2000s, they had a horrible reputation as a fun car. Super boring, super slow, but safe. They changed that. A base impreza is cooler now because of the WRX and STi, just like a golf is considered nicer than a Focus. (Unless you are in the UK then they are even.)

Your argument on #3 is exactly WHY they should build the Focus RS. Do you want the Focus to be viewed in higher regard? Then we need the Focus RS. Selling these higher performance models raises the perceived valued of the lower model. Based on your argument Subaru would have never brought the WRX/STi here, and the Evo would have never existed on our shores either.

I'll leave you with this.

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Old 06-27-2013, 05:50 PM   #219
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Old 06-28-2013, 09:46 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylesvt720 View Post
#2. They may be scarce in CO, but when I lived there all american cars are far more scarce. I see 5+ STs a day. (But I do live in Michigan.) As for the production number quotes, I'd have to see where you get that info from.

#3 STi interiors are crap. Their stereos and nav setups are crap. Have you sat in one? The base Focus blows that away. Are they quick? You bet. Do they have a good drivetrain? You bet. I don't see how that detracts from the Focus ST and possible RS drivetrains?

Yes Subi/Mitsu have big aftermarkets, because they've been around a while. Yes the focus has a bit of a stigma (not an astigmatism) related to it. If you know anything about Subaru, up until the early 2000s, they had a horrible reputation as a fun car. Super boring, super slow, but safe. They changed that. A base impreza is cooler now because of the WRX and STi, just like a golf is considered nicer than a Focus. (Unless you are in the UK then they are even.)

Your argument on #3 is exactly WHY they should build the Focus RS. Do you want the Focus to be viewed in higher regard? Then we need the Focus RS. Selling these higher performance models raises the perceived valued of the lower model. Based on your argument Subaru would have never brought the WRX/STi here, and the Evo would have never existed on our shores either.

You live in the heartland where American cars were born so yes,you will see a ton of STs daily where out here it's a mix but Subis and Toyotas are all over the place out here but I have been seeing more STs as of late.

I did agree that the radio/Nav setups suck and is why I have a basic stereo but the rest of the interior isn't bad and the guage cluster is exactly how I like it and yes,I get to sit in one quite frequently.

The problem I see with the RS is it's going to cost the same or even more than the STI and still hard to sell a FWD that is that pricey and it's cult following is nowhere near the EVO/STIs. Subaru and Mitsubishi had a head start in the minds of gearheads long before they actually hit there shores thanks to the Gran Turismo series showing what had been available in Japan 10 years before they showed up here so enthusiasts knew what Subaru was hiding. With Mitsubishi they already had success with the DSMs since '89 and even the AWD Galants had a presence in the early '90s.

I've been in the sport compact/import game for over 20 years so I've had a front row seat to all this history and Ford never has had a real presence in the sport compact performance arena (outside the minor blip we call the SVT) but the ST finally made the competition take notice when it comes to bang for your buck but I still see an RS more than a few years away and isn't a guarantee to be released here but it would be a pleasant surprise.
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