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Old 05-28-2013, 11:45 AM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TboneZX3 View Post
I've never been able to drain all the oil out of a filter... So, are you thinking that you consumed half a quart of oil in 1050 miles? That's not likely. Mine consumes about .5 quart in 10K miles.

I personally would trust the level on the dipstick more than what actually poured out of the pan and filter. Especially considering an undetermined amount left in the filter and possible spillage.
I took a long time draining both the car and the filter. (the filter because I'm not sure of how to dispose of it, but I know where to bring the oil for recycling). I'm not thinking the car burned .5qt I'm thinking that it wasn't filled to the proper level. I Did think it was really dirty for a new engine with only 1000 miles the oil but I guess you never know how long things idle at a dealer over the course of a year and a half...
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Old 05-29-2013, 05:14 PM   #412
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Stuff happens.

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Originally Posted by Tigeo View Post
Yep, those engineers at Ford really don't have any idea what they are talking about....
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Originally Posted by Arco-Zakus View Post
What makes you say that?
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Sarcasm. All of these oil folks that say that Ford's recommendations aren't correct and that you shouldn't follow them...they pay folks a lot of money for engineers to figure this stuff out...I tend to trust their recommendations.
When I read this ^^^, I was thinking of how to say this:
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Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post
They pay engineers not only to figure these things out, but also to weigh a cost-benefit analysis to Ford and create systems that will make compromises to suit many different people yet also be cost-effective for the company.

Oil is no different yet totally different than the wheels Ford chooses to install. Will the OEM wheels work for most consumers, be safe over a certain amount of mileage, and also be relatively inexpensive for the company? Absolutely. Are there better alternatives out there for the consumer that can meet OEM standards and them some? Absolutely.
but dyn085 said it better than I could have and beat me to it.

I'd probably agree with Tigeo in trusting Ford's recommendations, but don't think the sarcasm towards those who don't is justified.

The engineers designing relatively new technology have to base decisions more on probabilities than on certainties. Any manufacturer that waits for enough data to be available to get anything even close to 100% right will be left in the dust by competitors willing to take more risk. While Ford may employ some of the best engineers available, it's unlikely that all the engineers they employ are the best available. Even the best are human -- stuff happens. Worse stuff and more often for the not-so-good ones.

Of course, it is the people who buy their products who are really assuming the risk. It's not unreasonable for the ones who understand that to explore tradeoffs like spending more on maintenance to reduce the probability of failures, however uncertain the benefits might be.

As dyn085 said, the designers have to work within boundaries set by marketing people, accountants, lawyers, and government regulators. When they get more freedom to set their own boundaries, the results are usually much more impressive, but also farther out of most people's reach. (Ford GT40, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, ...) And they don't cut any corners to reduce the cost to maintain them in order to appeal to a bigger audience like the Focus has to.

Twenty years ago it was unimaginable that a relatively low priced 3,000 pound passenger car could have anywhere near 80 hp per liter and get better than 30 mpg. This is amazing stuff we're getting here, and it's unreasonable to expect it to be perfect, including the recommendations on how to maintain it.

Come to think of it, dan50 might have convinced me join those willing to spend a bit more to go beyond Ford's recommendations:

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... To me, it makes all the sense in the world to spend an extra $ 10-20/year to use a full synthetic on my Focus. If it's unnecessary I'll never miss the money; if it's a good idea it's money well-spent. The auto world is full of bad manufacturer decisions about engine design and OCI recommendations: sludging Toyotas and VWs, intake valve deposits on DI VWs and Audis, premature cam chain wear on GM DI V6s, etc. Only time will tell if Ford's engineering and recommendations are up to the task, but with its recent product introduction record I guess I'm not too trusting.

And finally, synthetics can handle extended OCIs better than conventional motor oils. At least Toyota thinks so: 5k conventional, 10k synthetic recommended OCI.
If Ford's engineers got it right we'd be wasting a few dollars a year, but otherwise maybe saving a lot more. Kinda' like paying insurance premiums and hoping to never have to make a claim.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:09 PM   #413
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The sarcasm was simply my way of dealing with the folks that think that if you follow Ford's recommendations, you are going to kill your car...its silly to think that your car won't go the long haul following this guidance. I also agree, its also probably not a bad thing to change a bit sooner than 10K (cheap insurance as you say)...I tend to want to kill 2 birds with 1 stone with oil changes..mine will be done at the dealer on this car b/c its free...10K is too long to wait between rotations so I will likely be in the ~7.5K oil change club. Yes, Ford's engineers have cost in mind too..but how is it a cost savings to Ford to recommend 10K OCIs and then have the motor blow up if you follow it? Common..think about it. If anything, they should sell the 5K OCI to make their dealers more money on unnecessary oil changes.
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:59 PM   #414
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I change my own oil at 5000 mile intervals. I could go 10,000 as I use Mobil-1 5W-20, but I chose to change at 5000 miles because I also rotate my tires at that point. No need to schedule two maintenance activities that demand much of the same prep work (jacking etc.).

A 5 quart jug of Mobil-1 5W-20 cost about $25 from Walmart and about $4 for the filter so call it $30 for 5000 mile or just over one half penny per mile. Gas cost me 20X as much and I'm getting about 38mpg. I change the oil and rotate the tires about three times a year and I also check other things at that time as well ... things like tire pressure, fluid levels, brake pads, etc.

If I changed the oil at 10,000 miles my cost would be about half but I'd still have to work on the car every 5000 miles to rotate the tires...


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Old 06-14-2013, 01:39 PM   #415
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Different objectives

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Originally Posted by Tigeo View Post
The sarcasm was simply my way of dealing with the folks that think that if you follow Ford's recommendations, you are going to kill your car...its silly to think that your car won't go the long haul following this guidance.
I guess I missed where anyone said it would "kill your car." Seemed to me more like shifting probabilities in favor of it not wearing out as quickly rather than preventing absolute failure. Either way it is probably not an exact science. Carmakers just want them to keep cranking, even if they show a lot of wear by the end of "the long haul." Enthusiasts (fanatics?) want engines that are as good as new for as long as they can keep them that way, and to avoid the gradual loss of performance that most people tolerate or don't even notice as they wear out.

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...mine will be done at the dealer on this car b/c its free...
Now that sounds riskier to me for "kill(ing) your car" than going way too long between changes. By the time I check that the rubber o-ring from the old filter has not stuck behind the new filter and that the drain plug is torqued correctly I might as well do the job myself. (Details about why I have so little trust might be too lengthy and stray too far off topic, but I'll share them if requested.) I guess you could just check for leaks under the car right after the work was done and frequently for a while afterwards. An alternative would be to watch over their shoulder the whole time, but it's not likely anyone would go for that. (I would have no problem with anyone else watching over mine if I were working on their car.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigeo View Post
... Yes, Ford's engineers have cost in mind too..but how is it a cost savings to Ford to recommend 10K OCIs and then have the motor blow up if you follow it? Common..think about it. If anything, they should sell the 5K OCI to make their dealers more money on unnecessary oil changes.
Again, "blow up" is one thing, but "used up" is different. Enthusiastic (fanatical?) owners care about how much their engines wear out but carmakers just want to avoid catastrophic failures, or at least keep the number of them small enough to work out in their favor. (Even a non-fanatic owner does not want to be in that group.)

In setting OCIs carmakers are also concerned about more than just the cost to perform oil changes. These days they have to consider people who fret about their "carbon footprint" and look at how much petrolium a car uses per year or over five years (or however long they would keep it) when following recommended maintenance schedules. The extra money dealers might make with shorter OCI recommendations could also be lost in sales to fleet owners, who analyze maintenance costs pretty thoroughly.
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Old 06-14-2013, 11:47 PM   #416
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Got some jackstands, so I'm gonna start doing my own oil changes soon. Probably just going to go with the Motorcraft blend, but I'm not sure what filter to use. The more expensive ones like the Bosches catch my eye because of the fancy packaging, but is the price worth it? Maybe a midrange Fram?
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Old 06-15-2013, 04:39 AM   #417
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Quote:
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Got some jackstands, so I'm gonna start doing my own oil changes soon. Probably just going to go with the Motorcraft blend, but I'm not sure what filter to use. The more expensive ones like the Bosches catch my eye because of the fancy packaging, but is the price worth it? Maybe a midrange Fram?
What is wrong with using a Motorcraft filter? They are inexpensive and have proven to be a good filters (at least on BITOG).
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Old 06-15-2013, 06:00 AM   #418
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I have the maintenance plan from the dealer (free) and they do the workes every 5000
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:06 PM   #419
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Quote:
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What is wrong with using a Motorcraft filter? They are inexpensive and have proven to be a good filters (at least on BITOG).
You have a point since that's what Ford uses with their dealer oil changes. I was just wondering if it's worth the money to get one of the fancier filters.
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Old 06-15-2013, 02:01 PM   #420
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Motorcraft filters are excellent filters but here in Canada you can't buy them at Walmart. You have to go to the dealer where they are marked up to $11.

In the future, I think I will start running the Purolator which I can get at Walmart and is only $4.
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