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Old 03-31-2013, 07:04 PM   #1
Deus Machina
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Timing tool stuck!

Alright, I bought the crank-locking timing tool and cam bar to replace the snapped timing belt.
The crank pin is just not working out.
1) It went into place at top dead center, but didn't prevent the crank from turning when I put any torque on it.
2) Now it won't come back out. I've been trying to get pliers and vice grips on it, but it's just about impossible in the position it's in.

So... anyone have any tips on that? Is there some way to get pieces back out if I somehow just have to break it?




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Old 03-31-2013, 09:22 PM   #2
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Wondering how long it would be before someone did this.

The tool was NEVER INTENDED to hold the crank in place during torquing, you bent it by putting force on it. The oil pan and I believe the crank girdle must now come off car to get to it. Keep trying to screw it out now and you only have more damage to look forward to. You might be able to pull just pan and if it shows, break it off and maybe fish out the piece with a magnet stuck in one of the girdle holes.

Sorry, there is a certain amount of insight that must occur to work on cars, Looking at the thin pin should've triggered fears of bending it, same with the cam tool bar at back of cams, neither one will hold during tightening and only break parts if you try to do so.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:44 PM   #3
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This happened to an English member close to three years ago now, "Crank Pulley Removal" was in the thread title if I remember right....

His timing kit had a "lock pin" as well as the timing pin and the thicker "lock" pin ended up bent beyond removal through the threaded hole....

Pan removal, cutting off the bent pin so the threaded part could be removed, flushing the bottom end with solvent to remove metal cutting debris, oiling it up again B4 reassembly to prevent a "dry start".... Got pretty involved & the stuck pulley STILL had to be dealt with.... (and all in a driveway where he had to lock up everything when not working on it...)

It's worth working quite a bit to get a wrench on that thing to loosen it & try to remove from the top if it's just stiff in there. If you turned the engine enough to bend it right over so it won't turn, you're stuck with removal from the bottom. Hopefully the thinner timing pin can just be broken off so you don't have the grinding job & debris to deal with.....

'Fraid amc is right that a bit more reading & understanding of the procedure could have prevented this, don't kick yourself so hard you can't chill out & do a well thought out recovery from the mess you have to deal with now! Only way to never goof is to never try, and we've all broken SOMETHING at one time or another....

When it happened to me (bustin' something by accident for example) I tried to remind myself I was STILL saving money over paying someone to do the job (and maybe paying for THEIR mistakes as well) just so I could calm down, fix the screw-up, and finish it right in the end!

We've seen plenty of folks bust cam ears trying to torque the sprockets using the bar as a holder. The cam has a spot for a wrench to "counter" the torque of locking THEM down while the bar is just for location....

Hope this doesn't become a long 'saga" for you! keep asking questions & thinking about how to get-r-done right step by step 'till it's buttoned up & working again.

To paraphrase a quote from "Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Repair", that little pin is worth the value of the whole engine right now so it's WORTH spending the time & effort needed to get it right again.

Luck!
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:00 PM   #4
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Sailor, you're saying I can get to it through the oil pan? It's a 2.0 DOHC if that matters.
In that case, it won't be bad. It's due for an oil change anyway. If I can see it, I'm certain I could just bend it and remove it.

The reason I bent it is because the guide I was following recommended that I could "just use the timing pin to lock it" to break the gear loose. Obviously this isn't the case and that guy must have just been lucky, but then I still have to break the cam gear free. A friend let me borrow an impact gun for this, but it's tough working on a 2-gallon air compressor without nearby access to power.

The pin won't turn, but the motor will; it only locks the crank in one direction now. It's a knurled top to it, now a hex, or I would have put a socket on it and tried removing it through torque. My hobby is machining, so I could easily re-tap the hole.

This is just the most aggravating thing because it was going surprisingly smoothly up to that point, and it would have been the matter of an afternoon to get it timed and back together. Guess I should have just used a scrap of steel bar and the screwdriver TDC trick, instead of trying the easy way.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:06 PM   #5
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yes, you use pin to lock it, but.... in procedure there is nothing about applying torque to it, or is there?

good luck,
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:28 PM   #6
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this is probably going to include having you to remove the windage tray as well. If you can't get it out at this point, you should be able to grind it down and leave it there. It just means that you will not be able to use this spot again for the next timing belt change. When it comes time to remove these things to fix this problem, take some pictures so that people in the future will have reference as to what can happen when they do this or plan to do this

good luck with this, it is just going to take a little time and some patience to fix this now. The cost should only be about $30 for a windage pan gasket and a tube of high temp rtv
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:55 PM   #7
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The comment I had read did say you can use the pin to lock the cam in place to break the crank gear loose. Wish I could find that site again, I'd leave a comment or two on that.

I'll make sure to document it. I've got a camera, two jacks, and a pair of stands. As long as I can get to it without needing a hoist, I'm good. Just frustrated.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:59 PM   #8
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^^^ this

Also look back at my note on cam pulleys, you use a wrench to hold the cam when loosening or tightening the sprocket bolts - air tools not needed for that.

Which "gear" were you trying to break loose by locking the crank with the tool?
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:07 AM   #9
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If you pull girdle you should know putting it back on, that the girdle must be 'stuck in the corner', or pulled back toward butting the transmission as well as bolting down to engine block. If you simply don't pay attention to both directions you can bolt it down to block with space between transmission face and girdle and then later break a corner off of girdle by trying to force it sideways to transmission when it's already pegged down tight to the block. Needless to say that can cost you too if unlucky that day.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Machina View Post
The comment I had read did say you can use the pin to lock the cam in place to break the crank gear loose.
Well, bad instructions or maybe you didn't read something well. I don't know.

What I do know is that you don't need to loose crank gear for timing belt job. And if you were trying to replace crank pulley then you do it by attaching long ratchet to the bolt and turning the engine starter (in short, if you didn't do that before you better read into detailed procedure).


Let us know how it went with releasing the stuck pin.
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