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Old 02-04-2013, 11:45 PM   #71
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Malim, these dipsticks suck. Check fluid on a bright sunny day, the light is necessary at least for a blind old fart like me. Pull stick out and wipe it off WELL on both sides, when you put it back in let the stick twist like it wants to while going in, don't restrain that from happening. When you restrain it the stick then wipes on both sides with oil. As the stick goes in, one side will always clutter up at the mark with oil, it is the scraper side that rubs tube while twisting and going in. The other side will often be much cleaner. Check it more than once, I do 4-5 times to get a firm idea of where I am at. Almost impossible to see the level with new clean fluid in there, even out in the sun. Look for the dry area above the oil level, why it's so important to clean the stick BONE DRY before checking.

You must still have the plastic end on stick, I've wondered what happens when the plastic gets old and cracks to fall off.

As an FYI to others..................only someone without a clue will seal the pan back up with RTV rather than use the gasket that is beginning to be commonly available on these. Ford can seal pan up with RTV because pan still bone dry at that time and on trans stand so it can be upside down. They save money by not using a seal but it is stupid to try to repeat that under car with trans fluid leaking all over the place. USE THE GASKET.................
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Old 02-05-2013, 12:21 AM   #72
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You gotta be kidding..............if that logic worked then there is no need to ever change oil in motor or transmission again.

Repair shops just love people that think like that. You do realize right that new fluid cannot help hopelessly worn out parts because someone can't think enough to figure out that old oil caused the wear.

If you change fluid and car quits shortly after, then it was not changing the fluid earlier that caused the damage, not the new fluid. One is either smart enough to figure that out, or he isn't. The trans shops are ready and waiting for people like that.
Nope buddy def not kidding.... and if you read what I said I stated that if a trans hasn't had any "upkeep" but its still shifting id leave it alone untill u have time to rebuild it or do proper upkeep just changing the fluid will possibly remove the only reason it may still be working, also u state old oil caused wear that's incorrect the peices of friction material along with metal from the friction plates being left in the trans is what causes wear old oil just lacks the detregent power of new oil... and u state shops are all out to rip people off I'm intersted in how you'd ever have any machine shop work done when rebuilding a engine or trans or since u don't trust them you prolly buy the 20,000 dollar machines and do it ur self. The trans shop my family friend owns wouldn't rip people off and def wouldn't give me advise that is incorrect he's a master certed mech, also its just common sense if left without upkeep things fail, but to remove old oil and do nothing else ur just going to cause more problems, if ur at 150k and have never upkept a trans or engine just changing the oil won't help you do a complete rebuild or overhaul.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:15 AM   #73
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'just changing the fluid will possibly remove the only reason it may still be working'

Explain how that is even possible so that a logically thinking man can say OK, I understand that.

And yes, I could most likely do that machine work myself, having done quite a bit of it. I certainly can inspect it for quality having done that too.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:58 PM   #74
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'just changing the fluid will possibly remove the only reason it may still be working'

Explain how that is even possible so that a logically thinking man can say OK, I understand that.

And yes, I could most likely do that machine work myself, having done quite a bit of it. I certainly can inspect it for quality having done that too.
Well most of us will trust a professional machine shop to resurface a head instead of dropping 20grand on a machine to do it our self so with your comment in mind "And yes, I could most likely do that machine work myself, having done quite a bit of it. I certainly can inspect it for quality having done that too" , who's the lodgical thinking man I'm explaining this to its not lodgical to pay 20grand vs 40 dollars to resurface a head for example.

As I've explained before and I'm saying this for transmissions with no upkeep for very extended periods of time that the old oil will contain small fragments of friction material in it and thus causing the larger gaps "caused from lack of upkeep" to be a little bit of a tighter tolerance as well as creating more friction on the friction plates thus cauing the old worn trans to still work in a somewhat normal manner. I'm not saying this is good but ur trying to tell so~and~so that if he or she has 170k on a trans that on Sunday night they shouldjust change there fluid and Monday morning they will be able to drive to work with out issue, what I'm telling or rather trying to warn people of is if you have a lot of miles on a worn underkept trans they should have a pro overhaul or atleast inspect I before just trying to change fluid, because just changing the fluid on a old underkept trans may stop its function all together. I learned this the hard way with a old truck I purchase of a guy whom never maintained the trans he had the idea if it ain't broke don't fix er, I changed the fluid after drivin it for a few mths and the next day it stoped shifting.

I'm just making sure people know what there getting into that's all...
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:31 AM   #75
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I've fixed enough transmissions to know that you can add up those particles and not get .002" out of them, the clutch packs will not work with that small an amount of thickness increase. Get a micrometer and measure the fluid if you will (pretty funny), or the trash in pan. The clutches have to wear relatively GREAT amounts to begin to slip, say .003" to '005" clearance each disc when loose on maybe 8 discs (steels and frictions together) that's .024" to .040"(close to or over one sixteenth inch) thick of wear there at slip time. That's after YEARS of wear. You would have to lose particles that big (small gravel size) to start slipping, at that point the clutch stack is too thin for the designed in clutch engagement distance. Even with only 6 discs there and thinner stack it's impossible. The TOTAL height of the clutch stack is what gets small enough to slip. 90% of the wear has to be there before the slip actually begins, there is NO WAY the fluid is going to carry that amount of thickness in particles, it would not be fluid but more like particle paste. Also draining the oil will still leave much of those steel particles stuck in discs to work like you say, BUT, they are too thin. They embed in the soft material to lose effective thickness too. Your 'little bit' of tolerance decrease won't do it, or if it did, the car only has another twenty minutes or so of movement left in trans.

Build a trans and measure some clutch packs going back together, they have to be anywhere from around .030" to .100"+ loose depending on model to be right and not seize while slipping with clutch not energized. You're saying .002" or so is going to make that trans jump up and live again? I don't think so. Like I said if so then trans was going to break in the next 5 minutes anyway.

I said I could do the work not that I would, you misconstrued the english there. I also never said one should change the fluid, just that doing so wouldn't and couldn't cause trans to fail by and of itself. I would be more in the line of 'get a new trans, no sense hoping your lack of competence is not going to hurt you now'. People who treat vehicles like that deserve to walk for a while to teach themselves a lesson.

I have heard all this many times before yet I still see no reason why the trans can fail with new oil in it unless it was due for failure shortly. Incompetence fostered that old wives tale, the incompetence that got the vehicle that way to begin with. So please don't go telling your friend with the shop that I said he was incompetent, because that is not so.

You'll love this one. Today brother in law calls crying about his Dodge 3500 Cummins ATX quit. Help he says. I have never worked on one or seen trans (48RE) before today. He says a ' reputable' (we'll not say who) transmission shop wants big bucks, $4000 quote) to R&R, trans is worn out according to them. They looked at it early in the day. I spent 2 hours on the web researching it, even found a factory service manual, Two parts bought later and trans is fixed, working perfectly. Cost around $135. I told him jokingly that he owned me close to $4k for 2 hours work.................

I own a Tempo that started slipping in mid '90s, on a whim and just for fun I took it to AAMCO, 'new transmission time' they told me, 'they all do that, it's dead man'. I looked up factory service manual at the public library and figured out how to fix the slip with a thirty cent washer, the car still runs fine with no slip today.

And people wonder why I am the way I am.

Last edited by amc49; 02-06-2013 at 03:12 AM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:52 AM   #76
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I've fixed enough transmissions to know that you can add up those particles and not get .002" out of them, the clutch packs will not work with that small an amount of thickness increase. Get a micrometer and measure the fluid if you will (pretty funny), or the trash in pan. The clutches have to wear relatively GREAT amounts to begin to slip, say .003" to '005" clearance each disc when loose on maybe 8 discs (steels and frictions together) that's .024" to .040"(close to or over one sixteenth inch) thick of wear there at slip time. That's after YEARS of wear. You would have to lose particles that big (small gravel size) to start slipping, at that point the clutch stack is too thin for the designed in clutch engagement distance. Even with only 6 discs there and thinner stack it's impossible. The TOTAL height of the clutch stack is what gets small enough to slip. 90% of the wear has to be there before the slip actually begins, there is NO WAY the fluid is going to carry that amount of thickness in particles, it would not be fluid but more like particle paste. Also draining the oil will still leave much of those steel particles stuck in discs to work like you say, BUT, they are too thin. They embed in the soft material to lose effective thickness too. Your 'little bit' of tolerance decrease won't do it, or if it did, the car only has another twenty minutes or so of movement left in trans.

Build a trans and measure some clutch packs going back together, they have to be anywhere from around .030" to .100"+ loose depending on model to be right and not seize while slipping with clutch not energized. You're saying .002" or so is going to make that trans jump up and live again? I don't think so. Like I said if so then trans was going to break in the next 5 minutes anyway.

I said I could do the work not that I would, you misconstrued the english there. I also never said one should change the fluid, just that doing so wouldn't and couldn't cause trans to fail by and of itself. I would be more in the line of 'get a new trans, no sense hoping your lack of competence is not going to hurt you now'. People who treat vehicles like that deserve to walk for a while to teach themselves a lesson.

I have heard all this many times before yet I still see no reason why the trans can fail with new oil in it unless it was due for failure shortly. Incompetence fostered that old wives tale, the incompetence that got the vehicle that way to begin with. So please don't go telling your friend with the shop that I said he was incompetent, because that is not so.

You'll love this one. Today brother in law calls crying about his Dodge 3500 Cummins ATX quit. Help he says. I have never worked on one or seen trans (48RE) before today. He says a ' reputable' (we'll not say who) transmission shop wants big bucks, $4000 quote) to R&R, trans is worn out according to them. They looked at it early in the day. I spent 2 hours on the web researching it, even found a factory service manual, Two parts bought later and trans is fixed, working perfectly. Cost around $135. I told him jokingly that he owned me close to $4k for 2 hours work.................

I own a Tempo that started slipping in mid '90s, on a whim and just for fun I took it to AAMCO, 'new transmission time' they told me, 'they all do that, it's dead man'. I looked up factory service manual at the public library and figured out how to fix the slip with a thirty cent washer, the car still runs fine with no slip today.

And people wonder why I am the way I am.
I didn't twist ur english if u read back to the orig post I said most people will trust shops instead of dropping 20k on a machine then ur next response you say u would be capible of doing the work which wasn't part of the convo anywho...

I'm not saying ur wrong but every trans has drasticly different tolerances, also you say flushing the trans won't reove sludge if you look at most trans "quick fixes" they are just thicker oil with most of its sole purpose of taking up space, I've rebuilt3only 4 transmissions in my life so I'm no proclaimed pro but I do know what I'm talking about, I'm not saying you don't however...

Good discussion...
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:16 AM   #77
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Yes, no insult intended or meant at all there, sorry I'm so opinionated, a major fault I have.

I obviously don't know everything but sometimes I think I do..........however, I'm right WAAAY more than I'm wrong. It makes one develop a very fat head and I am the worst.

Just amazing to me how much misinformation is out there to befuddle those who apparently have trouble figuring that out (not referring to you of course). If one trusts what he sees and can repeat over and over he will very often be at odds with many others and brother I pretty much stay that way, and not from wanting to I assure you. They pretty much grew to hate me at the parts store because I would not oversell unnecessary parts, all they wanted was throughput and did not care how much of people's money they steal, all the time telling you (more like brainwashing you) how much they save you money. I don't buy that bullsh-t.

I don't believe in physical hard flushing, it can stir up particles that were stuck in the pan mud to fail an old trans very quickly. Probably different methods there, some think just pumping all old oil out the cooler line is a flush, thinking that not so. I'm not familiar with all the flush procedures out there but doesn't impact me anyway as I change mine the 3X drain way and it works fine, I even use the drained fluid as chainsaw bar lube so no loss there. I don't recycle to cost myself money but if I can recoup costs yeah, I'll go there. I put a pan drain plug in every car I have, so not commonly yanking pans any more. I don't necessarily change ATX filters anymore either, unless something has faulted they actually never stop up. Maybe one gets changed per car in its' life...............I cut the old one apart and look inside it for damage evidence.

Obviously I'm way off post like usual, I'd better stop now.
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Old 02-27-2013, 05:41 PM   #78
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Anyone ever have any issues doing this with older cars/trucks? Thinking about doing this to a:

2001 Ford Focus (SPI)---108,000 miles
1999 Mercury Mountaineer 5.0 V8 (170,000 miles)


Both cars have original filters and tranny fluid...and I'm wondering if doing a change now will possibly screw up the transmissions?? Thanks for any advice!!

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Old 02-28-2013, 07:35 PM   #79
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So, now you are applying chaosian theory to your question? How are we to know that, YOU are the one most likely to know since you know the history of the vehicle............

I change at 60-75K or when fluid changes from red to orange, brownish is too late. Don't care what service manual says either. If you tow then number will be lower.

Pretty sure your arms are not tied behind you to stop you from doing it..........maybe your head is though, what a question..............especially after the long winded post I did further up.

Change it......change it......change it......change it......of course if the motor blows up then don't blame the trans fluid, they'll be doing that next.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:40 PM   #80
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I honestly think the old wives tale about fresh fluid killing an old trans that was neglected, goes something like this:

1-Do no service to trans ever
2-Transmission starts acting up
3-Change fluid
4-Transmission dies

Since #3 was the most recent event prior to trans death, people blame that.
Really, #1 killed the trans, #2 was it's dying breath, and #4 is inevitable at that point.
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