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Old 01-30-2013, 07:58 PM   #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
E85 is not particularly high octane. It's on par with 90-93 AKI octane rating fuel generally. Pure Ethanol has a higher octane rating, but most of the time they blend in sub-octane gasoline with E85 in order to lower the cost per gallon.

People use it for race applications because its cheaper than racing fuel, contains its own oxygen supply, and has a cooling effect as compared to E10 when injected into the combustion chamber due to the higher latent heat of vaporization.
Couldn't have asked for a better reply! Too bad that even after a bunch of spark advance, using E85 still nets you less mpg (familiar with E85 having a lower energy content).
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:02 PM   #692
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Originally Posted by mishka View Post
Is there any way to get the normal (non-winter) gas? I rarely start driving on a cold engine.
On that note, it takes almost 5 minutes for the engine to warm up in this 25 degree weather. Is it better to drive it cold since i'm not getting any "mpg" while sitting there at 0 mph? Or should I warm it up like I have been doing? I thought that colder engine uses more gas.
Yeah it's not a rotary or from the 1920's. The only requirements for driving are turning the engine on, and putting it in gear. I would disengage the parking brake too, but to each his own. Maybe give it five seconds to get the oil moving around the block if you want.

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Originally Posted by Roadworthy View Post
Here is an interesting idea:

Those who have a 2012 TI or I think virtually any 2013 that is designated as being able to use E85, I think they are tuned to scale better with higher octanes. E85 from my understanding has a much higher anti-knock rating, hence why people throw it in for race applications. The big requirement for engines to use E85 from what I remember is high pressure (Direct injection) and a tune that can scale the ignition timing higher to take advantage of the higher anti-knock properties, hence more power!
Correct, ethanol has higher anti-knock properties. It has a higher effective octane rating (some quick research shows it is around 94 - 96 [(R+M)/2]) as a result. The difference is energy density. Pure ethanol has an energy density of 77,300 BTU/gal. If you use a 114,000 BTU/gal base fuel (typical for ethanol free summer fuel, some ethanol free winter fuels may reach this level), E85 will only provide 82,805 BTU/gal, which is about a 27% reduction (hence the estimate you see around that E85 reduces fuel economy by about 30%).

So, E85 increases the octane rating but it has less energy. How do you make more power on E85? You use a crap ton of it. You up the injector size and cram it in there. Say goodbye to any fuel economy you may have had in the first place.

I found a pretty awesome paper talking about gasoline and ethanol that pretty much covers all of the topics mentioned in this thread and pretty much every other gas thread. I recommend every give it a read, it's very informative. It is also where I got my data for the reply above.

Changes in Gasoline - The Auto Technician's Guide to Spark Ignition Engine Fuel Quality
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:25 PM   #693
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Guys look in your manual in the section on fueling your car and what type of fuel to run, you will see a sentence in there that states that that premium fuel gains improved performance.

Ford has had adaptive fuel strategies in their cars for years now, they just do not advertise it. Many of their engines gain significant horsepower from premium fuel. The ECU allows more timing, etc.

I remember that Mazda on the CX9 (which is a 3 row Edge with the 3.7 liter engine instead of the 3.5) actually advertised that horsepower went from 273 to I believe 298 with premium fuel (the CX9 uses the non-Ti-VCT version of Ford's 3.7).
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:33 PM   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUERULES View Post
Guys look in your manual in the section on fueling your car and what type of fuel to run, you will see a sentence in there that states that that premium fuel gains improved performance.

Ford has had adaptive fuel strategies in their cars for years now, they just do not advertise it. Many of their engines gain significant horsepower from premium fuel. The ECU allows more timing, etc.

I remember that Mazda on the CX9 (which is a 3 row Edge with the 3.7 liter engine instead of the 3.5) actually advertised that horsepower went from 273 to I believe 298 with premium fuel (the CX9 uses the non-Ti-VCT version of Ford's 3.7).
I just read my 2013 SE's owners manual and it recommends using 87 only. I didn't see a phrase that stated premium would increase performance. Just may only be found in the 2012 second version.
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:58 PM   #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TORQUERULES View Post
Guys look in your manual in the section on fueling your car and what type of fuel to run, you will see a sentence in there that states that that premium fuel gains improved performance.

Ford has had adaptive fuel strategies in their cars for years now, they just do not advertise it. Many of their engines gain significant horsepower from premium fuel. The ECU allows more timing, etc.

I remember that Mazda on the CX9 (which is a 3 row Edge with the 3.7 liter engine instead of the 3.5) actually advertised that horsepower went from 273 to I believe 298 with premium fuel (the CX9 uses the non-Ti-VCT version of Ford's 3.7).
I believe that you get some performance gains (a few hp). But no one has posted any data of MPG improvements. And no one has calculated the cost differences between MPGs that they claim to gain and difference in price.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:17 PM   #696
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Running 91 on my Focus. I see about a 1~2 mpg gain for my usual driving route when compared to 87. In Orange County, the price difference between 87 and 91 is usually between 14-20 cents a gallon, which makes it viable to pump 91 IMO
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:26 PM   #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker_VII View Post
I just read my 2013 SE's owners manual and it recommends using 87 only. I didn't see a phrase that stated premium would increase performance. Just may only be found in the 2012 second version.
I'll try to scan that page into PDF at work tomorrow and post. My Focus was built 10/11.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:45 PM   #698
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Originally Posted by TORQUERULES View Post
I'll try to scan that page into PDF at work tomorrow and post. My Focus was built 10/11.
No you are correct. I did find that in the 2012 owners manual. However for some reason it currently doesnt say it in the 2013 manual. I will say that I just gassed up with 93 Octane from Shell and did notice an improvement in the initial feeling of the engine and mileage for the short time I drove it. I will be able to report actual finding within the week.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:49 AM   #699
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Glad you found it. I personally cannot really get much from the butt dyno as to the HP benefit, but the car does feel smoother and more consistent in power delivery. My mileage is a good 2-3mpg better with Premium fuel.
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Old 02-05-2013, 10:54 PM   #700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jet_mech_tech View Post
Not sure the way fuel works south of the border but up here in Ontario, I switched from regular 87 octane (containing at least 10% ethanol) to Shell supreme 91 octane (which contains 0% ethanol). Not sure about power but I definitely get better mpg. I think its the ethanol factor myself, but since ethanol is in everything up here except supreme, I'll stick with the 91 octane.

On a side note after crunching some numbers, I spend $6 more to fill up on high test but would spend about $8 more to get the same km's on regular gas .... so i'm still farther ahead.
i find shell supreme works best in this car as well as my f150.way better mileage then say petro canada
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