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Old 01-19-2013, 09:17 AM   #2791
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Why do you believe that the problems are primarily a function of the underlying OS and not the MFT app (with the shite FlashLite UI) itself?

Do all IVT systems based on Windows Automotive have similar problems?
Definitely the app. Nothing wrong with Windows Auto, it's just an OS. The OS has proven fine for several people who have utilized it for in-car performance applications for track-cars. It's all about the app on top of it. The app just needs to be re-tooled from the ground up, hopefully ditching Flash Lite altogether, and we'd have much better results. Using Flash Lite is just a waste of resources.
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Old 01-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #2792
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Definitely the app. Nothing wrong with Windows Auto, it's just an OS. The OS has proven fine for several people who have utilized it for in-car performance applications for track-cars. It's all about the app on top of it. The app just needs to be re-tooled from the ground up, hopefully ditching Flash Lite altogether, and we'd have much better results. Using Flash Lite is just a waste of resources.
I previously thought that Ford would likely press the reset button and start over with MFT but that seems less likely now with the new releases.
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Old 01-20-2013, 12:41 AM   #2793
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I previously thought that Ford would likely press the reset button and start over with MFT but that seems less likely now with the new releases.
Agreed. Why do what's right long term when you can just do what's cheaper short-term. Of course, that kind of thinking does them in, because that means it's more expensive long-term.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:14 AM   #2794
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Definitely the app. Nothing wrong with Windows Auto, it's just an OS. The OS has proven fine for several people who have utilized it for in-car performance applications for track-cars. It's all about the app on top of it. The app just needs to be re-tooled from the ground up, hopefully ditching Flash Lite altogether, and we'd have much better results. Using Flash Lite is just a waste of resources.
What are the current successful/popular products running Windows CE?

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Old 01-20-2013, 02:51 PM   #2795
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What are the current successful/popular products running Windows CE?
Your question is clearly outside the scope of this discussion and would best be directed to Microsoft.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:54 PM   #2796
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Your question is clearly outside the scope of this discussion and would best be directed to Microsoft.
I was trying to make a point of why I am suspicious of the OS. Apparently I failed.

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Old 01-20-2013, 06:46 PM   #2797
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Another way to look at the OS question is, do IVT systems that use something other than CE have issues?

Well, as a matter of fact, the Cadillac CUE system does not use CE, it uses Linux. CUE also uses completely different hardware and different developers, and Microsoft no where to be found.

However, CUE has rebooting issues (Initializing Application = Performing Scheduled Maintenance), latency issues (2-3 seconds for a response), voice activation problems, indexing problems, runaway radio volume increases, and on and on.



For reference to problems with a non-Microsoft IVT system,


http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/ats/...it-begins.html

"The 2013 Cadillac ATS's ambitious CUE infotainment system was fast-tracked into production and side-stepped usability engineering. It makes MyFordTouch look comparatively excellent. My prediction: CUE will be deservedly skewered here and elsewhere for its slow response to touch, poor indexing (correspondence to where it is touched), intermittent outright crashing (pictured), illogical menus, pagination and interface, and so on. Just one night in the car and I experienced all of these."

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/cad...-ux,20143.html

"CUE appears to be a textbook example of a first-generation product that is in dire need of revision" "CUE would be critized in a $20,000 car, but at more than $40,000 and a vehicle that can easily exceed $50,000, CUE is more a toy than a useful and safe interface.

http://www.motorward.com/2012/11/con...-cadillac-cue/

"Everyone who has used CUE agrees that it is pretty flawed." "CUE seems to be a bad copy of Ford MyTouch system."
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:46 PM   #2798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JessicaTi View Post
Another way to look at the OS question is, do IVT systems that use something other than CE have issues?

Well, as a matter of fact, the Cadillac CUE system does not use CE, it uses Linux. CUE also uses completely different hardware and different developers, and Microsoft no where to be found.

However, CUE has rebooting issues (Initializing Application = Performing Scheduled Maintenance), latency issues (2-3 seconds for a response), voice activation problems, indexing problems, runaway radio volume increases, and on and on.



For reference to problems with a non-Microsoft IVT system,


http://www.edmunds.com/cadillac/ats/...it-begins.html

"The 2013 Cadillac ATS's ambitious CUE infotainment system was fast-tracked into production and side-stepped usability engineering. It makes MyFordTouch look comparatively excellent. My prediction: CUE will be deservedly skewered here and elsewhere for its slow response to touch, poor indexing (correspondence to where it is touched), intermittent outright crashing (pictured), illogical menus, pagination and interface, and so on. Just one night in the car and I experienced all of these."

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/cad...-ux,20143.html

"CUE appears to be a textbook example of a first-generation product that is in dire need of revision" "CUE would be critized in a $20,000 car, but at more than $40,000 and a vehicle that can easily exceed $50,000, CUE is more a toy than a useful and safe interface.

http://www.motorward.com/2012/11/con...-cadillac-cue/

"Everyone who has used CUE agrees that it is pretty flawed." "CUE seems to be a bad copy of Ford MyTouch system."
Good find Jessica!

Kia's UVO system, the Nissan Leaf's display/information system, Fiat's infotainment system, and of course the SYNC system all are built on Windows Embedded Automotive.

Now, SYNC isn't perfect, but the standard system has received it's fair share of praise. The voice commands are among the best in vehicles today, despite MFT voice command issues. Up until MFT was released, SYNC was a very popular item in the industry when it came to hands-free technology.

MFT has great potential, but running an application through Flash Lite is just a dumb idea. Writing an application native to Windows Embedded Automotive would have been MUCH better, the fact that we're running an application to run an application especially on limited hardware is stupid to begin with.

That said, we're clearly not alone, and after watching the CUE videos... I'm loving MFT.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:08 PM   #2799
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[QUOTE=JessicaTi;4546250]
Furthermore, when you consider that MFT has a voice recognition vocabulary of 10,000 first-level commands compared to Toyota's Entune vocabulary of only 26, one would expect a higher rate of "problems" with MFTs voice control, however, the data actually shows MFT performing well compared to the industry, despite it's dramatically more complex vocabulary.
[/ QUOTE]

I'm about 150 pages behind in this discussion, but what the heck, I'll jump in anyway.

There's nothing wrong with MFT's voice recognition (other than being utterly archaic compared to the bar that Google sets). It works fine. That's not really surprising because Ford didn't write it. It's 3rd-party sourced from Nuance and all they had to do was interface to it and provide word lists.

When you press the command button and it does nothing, or it draws the correct screen to choose a match, but leaves it blank and tells you to choose a number -- THAT'S Ford at work.

Now, this is the first time I've ever heard of Toyota Entune, but my 3 seconds of research tells me you're way off with the 26-to-10,000 comparison. The 10,000 commands is a marketing number (please feel free to figure out how they came up with this number, I'm sure someone already has). Both systems are presumably essentially unlimited if you count POI names/media names as unique command variations.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:42 PM   #2800
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[QUOTE=pil__;4549128]
Quote:
Originally Posted by JessicaTi View Post
Furthermore, when you consider that MFT has a voice recognition vocabulary of 10,000 first-level commands compared to Toyota's Entune vocabulary of only 26, one would expect a higher rate of "problems" with MFTs voice control, however, the data actually shows MFT performing well compared to the industry, despite it's dramatically more complex vocabulary.
[/ QUOTE]

I'm about 150 pages behind in this discussion, but what the heck, I'll jump in anyway.

There's nothing wrong with MFT's voice recognition (other than being utterly archaic compared to the bar that Google sets). It works fine. That's not really surprising because Ford didn't write it. It's 3rd-party sourced from Nuance and all they had to do was interface to it and provide word lists.

When you press the command button and it does nothing, or it draws the correct screen to choose a match, but leaves it blank and tells you to choose a number -- THAT'S Ford at work.

Now, this is the first time I've ever heard of Toyota Entune, but my 3 seconds of research tells me you're way off with the 26-to-10,000 comparison. The 10,000 commands is a marketing number (please feel free to figure out how they came up with this number, I'm sure someone already has). Both systems are presumably essentially unlimited if you count POI names/media names as unique command variations.
The 10,000 is definitely inflated for marketing and is really only pertinent to the Nav-equipped models that deal with more than just "artist, album, song, fm, radio, climate" etc. But... compared to the systems I've used in Kias and Hyundais, SYNC's voice commands are downright revolutionary.

But to be fair... MS wrote the voice-command system using the Nuance technology. Ford didn't really "write" any of it... only contracted partners to do so. It's still their fault that MFT isn't up to snuff quite yet... but with the Cadillac CUE fiasco making MFT look good, looks like Ford isn't the only one making mistakes. Glad my car was only half the price of those and still gets it better.
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