Ford's letter regarding the "PowerShift 6 Speed Operating Characteristics"

[roswelltop]

Dear Ford,
Regarding your letter acknowledging the grinding, whining, clicking, clunking and other sounds of metal on metal, it is only fair that copies of this letter be clearly posted on EVERY new Focus with the 6 speed Power Shift Transmission.

I would think that the letter should be affixed next to the manufacturer's "window sticker" so that every potential customer can make an informed decision.

In other words Ford, this is nothing more, nothing less, than drug manufacturers do in posting the possible adverse affects to those who use their drugs right their on the bottle. And in your television advertising, you can run a little banner right there at the bottom of the screen.

What? It might decrease sales? I say poppycock! Despite being told that drugs will make users bleed, choke, cough, wheeze, poop, pee uncontrollably, vomit, forget stuff....and on and on, it makes NO difference. Prescription drug use is at an all time high. Heck, you might even sell more cars.....

Yours very truly,
The Average Joe

[Scott02]

Wiki Quote...
At the time of launch in 2003[2][6] - it became the world's first dual clutch transmission in a series production car,[2][6] in the German-market Volkswagen Golf Mk4 R32[2][6] and shortly afterwards, worldwide in the original Audi TT 3.2;[7] and for the first few years of production, this original DSG transmission was only available in transversely orientated[2] front-engine, front-wheel-drive — or Haldex Traction-based four-wheel-drive vehicle layouts.

The first DSG transaxle that went into production for the Volkswagen Group mainstream marques had six forward speeds (and one reverse),[6][7] and used wet/submerged multi-plate clutch packs[2][4] (Volkswagen Group internal code: DQ250, parts code prefix: 02E).[7] It has been paired to engines with up to 350 N·m (260 lb·ft) of torque,[6][7] and the two-wheel-drive version weighs 93 kg (210 lb). It is manufactured at Volkswagen Group's Kassel plant,[2] with a daily production output of 1,500 units.[6]

At the start of 2008, another world first,[6] an additional 70 kg (150 lb) seven-speed DSG transaxle[6] (Volkswagen Group internal code: DQ200, parts code prefix: 0AM)[9][10] became available. It differs from the six-speed DSG, in that uses two single-plate dry clutches (of similar diameter).[10] This clutch pack was designed by LuK Clutch Systems, LLC.[11] This seven-speed DSG is used in smaller front-wheel-drive cars with smaller displacement engines with lower torque outputs,[6][7][10] such as the latest Volkswagen Golf,[6][10] Volkswagen Polo Mk5,[10] and the new SEAT Ibiza,[7] due to it having a maximum torque handling capacity of 250 N·m (180 lb·ft).[6] It has considerably less oil capacity than the six-speed DQ250; this new DQ200 uses just 1.7 litres (0.37 imp gal; 0.45 US gal) of transmission fluid.[6]

In September 2010, VW launched a new seven-speed DSG built to support 500 N·m (370 lb·ft), the DQ500. Its first use was in the Audi TT-RS
End wiki quote...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox

So VAG does have dual dry clutch transmissions too, and although I havne't driven an Audi TT RS, I bet it feels just as good as the wet clutch DSG's. Although, yes, this is just my assumption.

[GhiaFan]

VW dry clutch DCT gets very similar complaints over here in Europe as the Ford dry clutch DCT complaints coming from North America owners.
VW as far as I know does not sell any dry clutch DCT equipped vehicles in North America.

[GhiaFan]

Originally Posted by roswelltop

Dear Ford,
Regarding your letter acknowledging the grinding, whining, clicking, clunking and other sounds of metal on metal, it is only fair that copies of this letter be clearly posted on EVERY new Focus with the 6 speed Power Shift Transmission.

I would think that the letter should be affixed next to the manufacturer's "window sticker" so that every potential customer can make an informed decision.

In other words Ford, this is nothing more, nothing less, than drug manufacturers do in posting the possible adverse affects to those who use their drugs right their on the bottle. And in your television advertising, you can run a little banner right there at the bottom of the screen.

What? It might decrease sales? I say poppycock! Despite being told that drugs will make users bleed, choke, cough, wheeze, poop, pee uncontrollably, vomit, forget stuff....and on and on, it makes NO difference. Prescription drug use is at an all time high. Heck, you might even sell more cars.....

Yours very truly,
The Average Joe

^

[unfocused1]

Originally Posted by Scott02

Everyone who has a DCT trans and think they have, or do not have, issues with it... I strongly suggest to go test drive an automatic Volkswagen car with the DSG Transmission. This way you'll have another dual clutch auto transmission to compare your DCT to.

Will do, thanks!

I know the 1->2 and 2->3 noises are said to be normal, and after reading the OP I do think it is normal, but getting a comparison vehicle to allay even the most minor fear never hurts. (and I'd put Ford over VW any day already...)

Originally Posted by roswelltop

Dear Ford,
Regarding your letter acknowledging the grinding, whining, clicking, clunking and other sounds of metal on metal, it is only fair that copies of this letter be clearly posted on EVERY new Focus with the 6 speed Power Shift Transmission.

I would think that the letter should be affixed next to the manufacturer's "window sticker" so that every potential customer can make an informed decision.

In other words Ford, this is nothing more, nothing less, than drug manufacturers do in posting the possible adverse affects to those who use their drugs right their on the bottle. And in your television advertising, you can run a little banner right there at the bottom of the screen.

What? It might decrease sales? I say poppycock! Despite being told that drugs will make users bleed, choke, cough, wheeze, poop, pee uncontrollably, vomit, forget stuff....and on and on, it makes NO difference. Prescription drug use is at an all time high. Heck, you might even sell more cars.....

Yours very truly,
The Average Joe

Agreed. I was told that the DCT had Sport mode, and was told to drive it like an automatic. Once I heard the noises, I brought it in - and was told by the mechanic and his supervisor to drive it like a manual and to give it more gas.

The left hand (mechanical division) doesn't know what the right hand (sales group) is doing. But that was a year ago (of which the DCT was in the Fiesta only, with the 2012 Focus being on the market for ~6 months or whatever and the salesman may or may not have been new, and/or other possibilities.)

I know a couple folks on this forum said to not "geezer drive", to help break in the transmission more effectively and they're right. I wish that was said at the time of sale.

I do love my Focus overall.

[paul21]

Originally Posted by fomenter

“Green” clutch break-in period
New, replacement, and reset clutches are “green” and require a break in period before shift event quality is maximized. During the break-in period, green clutches may exhibit:
• A rattle noise similar to a loose catalytic converter shield. This noise is commonly heard after light throttle 1-2, 2-3 or 3-4 upshifts. This rattle noise will diminish greatly as the clutch completes the break-in.
• A take-off shudder/launch judder (shaky vs. smooth).
• A harsh-shift feel during the first few cold shifts before the transmission reaches operating temperature.

All of the above conditions will diminish and the customer will notice progressively better launch and smoother shifting within the first few hundred miles of mixed driving as clutch break-in occurs. Note: The break-in process may take longer for highway driving, where the clutch is not shifting.
The transmission will automatically learn and make adaptations during shifting events, so it is important to evaluate after allowing sufficient driving time for adaptations to occur. This green clutch feel may reappear if the clutch touch points are reset and/or the clutch is removed and/or replaced. The condition may last longer for a clutch replacement than a reset. A reset may take up to 100 miles to get the new touch points learned to the point of not making
any of the out-of-adjustment noise. A clutch replacement may take up to 1000 miles to reach break-in dependent on the customer style of driving.
The break-in period can be minimized by performing the adaptive drive cycle exactly as described in the Workshop Manual, Section 307-11 (Fiesta) and 307-01 (Focus)

So the problems that a lot of us have ( http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275780 ) are accurately described here. All of our cars have over 1,000 miles, but the dealers still use this as ammo to claim that it's normal despite the fact that plenty of time was given for the clutches to break in. It should have read "If these "green" clutch problems persist after 1000 miles, the clutch internals should be inspected."

[Scott02]

I actually purchased this car because it had the DCT transmission. I had one in California for a rental and really liked the DCT. As a general comment, I think the DCT actually functions quite nicely considering it IS a manual transmission, and also for how new the concept is.

Being 100% realistic, 50% of the manual transmission drivers I've driven with, drive more jerky than this DCT. Seriously... Think about that one.

I actually feel the DCT up and down shifts quite smoothly, and was also pleasantly surprised on how well it takes off from a stop in 1st gear.

However, that said, there are certain situations where things can go awry. For instance, when driving slowly (just above creeping) up a decent slope, say from a stop light. The programming makes it upshift to 2nd gear WAY too early, and the car starts jerking and lunging.

Is this the transmissions fault? Nope.
Is this the drivers fault? Nope. (but in hindsight, he/she could just simply press the accelerator pedal a little bit more like he/she would have to do in a manual car, and the car wouldn't try to upshift into 2nd)
Is it the Transmission Controller's programming fault? Yes, I do think so.

In my opinion, the majority (if not all) of the "issues" that people have with the DCT, could be fixed in the software.

So to me, this leaves two questions...
Why is Ford Engineers not working like crazy on updated software?
Why is NO ONE ELSE working on better software?
~~~If I had more time, I'd be all over this.

In the VW world many manufacturers flash the DSG Trans Controller for better performance, firming shifts, moving shift points, making it all around "better", etc.

If there is something sketchy or quirky with a car (or anything for that matter) it only takes someone with enough drive to fix it.

[paul21]

Originally Posted by Scott02

In my opinion, the majority (if not all) of the "issues" that people have with the DCT, could be fixed in the software.

So to me, this leaves two questions...
Why is Ford Engineers not working like crazy on updated software?
Why is NO ONE ELSE working on better software?

Having worked in the industrial control industry, a lot of onlookers used to say fix it with software. Sometimes a kludge can be done, but it's really hard to fix broken actuators and leaky seals with a software update.

And as far as Ford not working on this, I've had 4 different versions of DCT software installed on my car so far (2011 factory, December 2011, 12B37, and a newer version when I took it in Jan 2013.) Somebody is doing something, I'm just not quite sure what it is. It still hasn't removed the oil from my clutches or fixed my squeaking actuator.

[Pendarus]

Originally Posted by paul21

Having worked in the industrial control industry, a lot of onlookers used to say fix it with software. Sometimes a kludge can be done, but it's really hard to fix broken actuators and leaky seals with a software update.

And as far as Ford not working on this, I've had 4 different versions of DCT software installed on my car so far (2011 factory, December 2011, 12B37, and a newer version when I took it in Jan 2013.) Somebody is doing something, I'm just not quite sure what it is. It still hasn't removed the oil from my clutches or fixed my squeaking actuator.

Did you tell the dealer you suspect an oil leak? If you have oil in the bell-housing, they have TSB for that. It includes replacing the seal and the clutches.

As for the letter, my DCT works exactly like the letter describes, and I love it! I have never had the grinding metal sound described by some. Mine just works, it is smooth even at low speeds and in reverse. The only time I have an issue is when I give it conflicting inputs (Like sudden acceleration followed by sudden braking).

[PratoN]

Originally Posted by Pendarus

Did you tell the dealer you suspect an oil leak? If you have oil in the bell-housing, they have TSB for that. It includes replacing the seal and the clutches.

True, but if there is no external oil leakage or if the clutch is getting glazed or overheating from a bound bearing, there is no way to prove it without first opening up the bell housing - which, apparently, only like 3 dealers in the entire United States are willing to do.