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Old 01-10-2013, 11:22 AM   #31
e30og
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Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
The 5M is short a gear, and also has a shorter top gear meaning the vehicle spins the engine faster to go the same speeds on the freeway, increasing wear rates and using more fuel. Some people think its a fair trade off. Others who have been used to it for the past 3+ years may not want to do that again.

Trust me my old car had essentially the same gearing in 5th gear (gear and axle ratio) as the 5MT, and it really was screaming away at or around 3000 rpm just to do 70 mph.

My old car did have a terrible exhaust resonance at 2k, but it was still very loud at 3000 as well.

The Focus is probably quieter, but since its also heavier its less efficient from a stop.

I'd go with the DCT unless they offered a 6M with the same or taller 6th gear ratio.

The MMT6 in the ST is geared shorter than the DCT, but with a taller final drive that means its got a lower ratio than the 5M, but is still higher numerically than the DCT afaik, but its much closer than the 5M.
waa waa waa 3k rpms at 70mph

this is a very quiet car even at highway speed. No 'noise annoyance' issues or wear and tear coming from a manual driver logging almost 40k miles on the MK3 focus with a manual. City driving is FAR more abusive on the car than a steady highway roll even at 3k rpms. The engine and transmission aren't made out of glass (except some of the DCTs apparently), and the added control of the manual transmission erases many driving issues of the DCT involving annoying shift times or the dangers of shifting at the wrong time with impaired weather.

The RPM's have very little effect in mileage compared to your use of the gas pedal. High highway MPGs are easily attainable in the 5-spd (again from thousands of miles of personal experience here, not technical theory) including the golden 40mpg mark, as long as you keep the speeds lower and aren't constantly on the gas. Feather the gas to keep the car at 65-70mph and watch the mileage SOAR. Best thing is there is no need to downshift to speed up with it in 5th, whereas if you were in a 6th gear your would be constantly downshifting to get on the gas.

not to mention the 5MT is a total sweetheart to shift. Look of any of the problems that can go wrong with a used MK3, the worst and most expensive BY FAR is one of the DCT's blowing up. Avoid that problem completely with a stick you will never regret it
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
The 5M is short a gear, and also has a shorter top gear meaning the vehicle spins the engine faster to go the same speeds on the freeway, increasing wear rates and using more fuel. Some people think its a fair trade off. Others who have been used to it for the past 3+ years may not want to do that again.

Trust me my old car had essentially the same gearing in 5th gear (gear and axle ratio) as the 5MT, and it really was screaming away at or around 3000 rpm just to do 70 mph.
At 80mph my Focus 5 speed is spinning at 3400rpm which really isn't that high strung (my Type R was high strung and over 4000rpm at the same speed but with a 9100rpm limit I didn't care) and the wear rate on any engine is very minimal at best at higher rpm and not really an issue.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:31 AM   #33
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thank you RonMaiden

Plus, the manual will save you a grand (or almost that) you can keep in your pocket or throw towards mods/upgrades

manual is not only quiet and unobtrusive at highway RPMs, but clutch and stick operation are very light and low effort. Im in the midst of the crappiest Baltimore city stop and go on a daily basis. Never have a sore left leg or frustration getting it into gear
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:38 AM   #34
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Also, with all the issues already with the DCT, do people really believe as the miles pile up they're going to become more reliable? Not in my experience. As a college student, do yourself a favor and buy a 5 speed non MFT model.

You're finding used cars for $14k...I paid $16.1k for my new '13 5 speed hatch. I did the used search too and quickly realized it's not worth the savings buying used when rebates are so high. They're basically eating the depreciation.

Fyi I have seen lots of ex rental cars at Ford dealerships. They buy them at auction and use them as loss leaders to get you on the lot. Always ask for a Carfax and/or Autocheck before you buy anything used. Always. They're not foolproof but they can tell you a lot.

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Old 01-10-2013, 12:00 PM   #35
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White automatics won't get you laid in College... But at least it doesn't look as dirty and anyone can drive it for you in a pinch

I will echo a couple things that have been said before... Get the manual transmission, its a skill everyone should have and it makes any car more fun. I drove my SVT on SoCal streets so I will sympathize with the want for an Auto in those conditions. The four years I spent in an Auto after my SVT though we're some of the most boring I've had.

If you want to keep costs low by all means buy used. I will agree with PratoN though... A nice used SVTF would make for a great college car, and if you can find an EAP in Screaming Yellow or Comp Orange you'll definitely pull in the women and you might impress your friends too!
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:07 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMaiden View Post
At 80mph my Focus 5 speed is spinning at 3400rpm which really isn't that high strung (my Type R was high strung and over 4000rpm at the same speed but with a 9100rpm limit I didn't care) and the wear rate on any engine is very minimal at best at higher rpm and not really an issue.
If its at 3400 rpm that's again nearly 400+ rpm more than it would be if it had a 6th gear.

Is it strictly necessary to have the 6th gear? No, the fifth gear will still top out at a higher top speed than the car is capable of reaching due to the speed limiter/ governor.

I don't want to say no one should buy the 5MT, in fact I very nearly did except for the fact that I couldn't get what I wanted with the manual at the time.

If Ford was commited to "one Ford" we shouldn't have to choose between equipment or transmission choices. My exact same car would have been available in Canada with the 5MT, but even though they were all built on the same assembly line they would not allow you to custom order it with a manual.

Even if I wanted to I couldn't get it as an SE instead with the sport package as they had restricted the interior trim options against it, even though the Escape is the exact opposite, you can't get this color with the light interior instead of the dark one in the Escape. You can even get it in a Titanium which you could not with the Focus for the same reasons.

For the type of driving I had been doing the extra gear on the freeway would be great.

80 MPH with the taller gear is just under 3000 rpm (2953 rpm) with the taller 6th gear and marginally shorter final drive.

The clutch of the five speed felt really good, much the same as my old car, but the shifter was a touch vague, and not quite as smooth as the MMT6 in the ST.

I was more concerned with the ambient noise at higher speeds, as well as the fuel efficiency gains to offset the weight gain over the older car. At speed on the freeway the inertia helps, but around town the car will suffer more off of the line.

I like driving a manual, but you can thank/ curse Ford for not offering more choices.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:29 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
If its at 3400 rpm that's again nearly 400+ rpm more than it would be if it had a 6th gear.

Is it strictly necessary to have the 6th gear? No, the fifth gear will still top out at a higher top speed than the car is capable of reaching due to the speed limiter/ governor.

I don't want to say no one should buy the 5MT, in fact I very nearly did except for the fact that I couldn't get what I wanted with the manual at the time.

If Ford was commited to "one Ford" we shouldn't have to choose between equipment or transmission choices. My exact same car would have been available in Canada with the 5MT, but even though they were all built on the same assembly line they would not allow you to custom order it with a manual.

Even if I wanted to I couldn't get it as an SE instead with the sport package as they had restricted the interior trim options against it, even though the Escape is the exact opposite, you can't get this color with the light interior instead of the dark one in the Escape. You can even get it in a Titanium which you could not with the Focus for the same reasons.

For the type of driving I had been doing the extra gear on the freeway would be great.

80 MPH with the taller gear is just under 3000 rpm (2953 rpm) with the taller 6th gear and marginally shorter final drive.

The clutch of the five speed felt really good, much the same as my old car, but the shifter was a touch vague, and not quite as smooth as the MMT6 in the ST.

I was more concerned with the ambient noise at higher speeds, as well as the fuel efficiency gains to offset the weight gain over the older car. At speed on the freeway the inertia helps, but around town the car will suffer more off of the line.

I like driving a manual, but you can thank/ curse Ford for not offering more choices.
Look, suss, we get that you went with an auto, and more power to you, but give it a rest already with the sixth gear bit, it's getting boring.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:43 PM   #38
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does anybody remember Gone in 60 Seconds? Angelina Jolie in her prime was grinding her cooch on that shifter...nuff said
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:50 PM   #39
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White automatics won't get you laid in College... But at least it doesn't look as dirty and anyone can drive it for you in a pinch
haha thanks for the advice. Basically what I'm looking for is a car that's safe, (side curtain, 5 stars etc.) gets good gas mileage for road trips, can fit at least 4 other people, some cargo space, and has good looks.

Now, I also like the mazda 3 hatch, gti, cruze etc. But what can I say, I'm a Ford guy, and I love the euro look of the Focus
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:00 PM   #40
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I have tired of manual transmissions,. The only time I ever want another one is on a motorcycle. I like the DCT much better because it is so versatile. I can put it in D or S and let it shift itself or play with the shifter buttons when I am in the mood without having the hassle of taking my foot of the gas and having to press a clutch pedal. After 38K miles my DCT is still as smooth as day 1. I love it. Plus I love the fact there are no idiotic DRL's on U.S. models!
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