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Old 01-08-2013, 03:45 AM   #41
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Tom, you and I have had our bats in the past but I could not agree with you more on this one.

I have first hand seen PLENTY of vehicle damage brought on by simple E10, which commonly goes as high as E20 here because they slip in more and more to make you buy more product when the mileage drops. The Ford dealers here in Texas test for fuel percentage now, if car has more than 10% they deny warranty repair and make owner pay for it on non flexfuel cars. Of course factory was forced to upgrade cars because of it, much less E85. The last fuel pump I changed was totally corroded, crumblies coming out of it, saying it doesn't hurt parts is ludicrous. I saw plenty more just like it at the store where I sold many more fuel system parts than in the past before E10. I can watch a quantity of fuel phase separate to become garbage in five minutes outside on a humid day, water appears in it where none was before. Not what I would call a stable fuel at all.

Engineers spouting off all day long mean nothing next to empirical evidence right in front of your eyes.

I printed financials of the ethanol industry for several years, if the government ever drops the subsidy for it, it will disappear overnight since no one will want to pay the true $6 or so a gallon it costs to make. They were terrified of that.

Clearly some here were not watching news of increasing corn prices this last two years simply due to ethanol production cutting into food. Look at the price of your corn flakes folks, it's right there in front of you.

News story from 'climate engineers' this very morning about ethanol use increasing the greenhouse effect more than classic fuels did since much higher percentages used. They claimed carbon emissions were higher.

I like high performance as well as the next guy but the penalties paid for this stuff are simply too high...........there are many more things to 'quality of life' than simple pleasure felt at putting one's foot into the firewall. I happen to like my corn flakes...............
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:05 PM   #42
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I had a friend with an SRT4 pick up 75 WHP on the same boost levels by switching to E85. You can't tell me it doesn't work. Sure it has reduced fuel efficiency, sure it takes a lot of corn to make, sure. I couldn't care less about those points in a discussion about PERFORMANCE. I don't care about the politics behind it especially, because that has nothing to do with the performance of E85. I have personally seen its effectiveness, so I'll continue to support it and use it in some applications until something better comes along.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:09 PM   #43
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Why some, why not all applications ?

Show me one manufacture of E85 that advertises it as a performance fuel , one oil company ?? why is there no octane rating on the pumps , Why do they not test for water absorption , why is the fuels blended just before shipment , why is it the ONLY unregulated fuel or ethanol allowed by big brother , Do these questions not bother you or are you just going to go by what your friends car did sitting on a dyno and stand with that ??? ANSWER because it would NOT meet any minimum standards set or inforced by big brother , not the octane , not the moisture content , not minimum fuel standards etc etc

Everyone that wants to run this fuel please do so ,I am not trying to stop any one from using it . What I do want to do is stop the abortion (arrest of development (as of a part or process) resulting in imperfection) of people killing their engines , fuel pumps , fuel lines etc etc etc from reading post / forums of my friends dads daughters boyfriend used it and made 50 more hp by just adding e85 because they are not fully informed

To the guys that think its a wonder fuel and you like it and want to use it please do so

Tom
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:49 PM   #44
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well said ^^^
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:29 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
Why some, why not all applications ?

Show me one manufacture of E85 that advertises it as a performance fuel , one oil company ?? why is there no octane rating on the pumps , Why do they not test for water absorption , why is the fuels blended just before shipment , why is it the ONLY unregulated fuel or ethanol allowed by big brother , Do these questions not bother you or are you just going to go by what your friends car did sitting on a dyno and stand with that ??? ANSWER because it would NOT meet any minimum standards set or inforced by big brother , not the octane , not the moisture content , not minimum fuel standards etc etc

Everyone that wants to run this fuel please do so ,I am not trying to stop any one from using it . What I do want to do is stop the abortion (arrest of development (as of a part or process) resulting in imperfection) of people killing there engines , fuel pumps , fuel lines etc etc etc from reading post / forums of my friends dads daughters boyfriend used it and made 50 more hp by just adding e85 because they are not fully informed

To the guys that think its a wonder fuel and you like it and want to use it please do so

Tom
I never said it was marketed as a performance fuel, did I? The questions bother me a tiny bit, but not enough to religiously bash a fuel based on theoretical numbers alone vs actual real world testing and experience.

You don't kill engines, fuel pumps, fuel lines, etc if the car is set up for E85. I'm not promoting just throwing E85 in a car and tuning for it, I'm promoting its use on properly setup systems. I have multiple friends using it and it's not only dyno numbers that back up it's performance gains.

I appreciate your opinions and insight into the matter, I'm not trying to dismiss anything you say because you make some valid points and I appreciate the input. But I have yet to see first hand of anyone killing any major components just from running E85.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:11 AM   #46
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I am here to say I have seen dozens of well tuned blown e85 engines , I have had in my hands fuel pumps that looked like they sat in water or a corrosive for years but had only seen e fuel for less then a year , I have seen it eat through rubber hoses not ment for e fuels
I have tuned with this fuel , I have seen the customer return with in 2 weeks and retest and have as much as -5 deg knock on his knock sensor because the e85 he bought the first time was a better quality then what he now had in the car , I have seen pistons burned with holes because of spark knock and know the timing was to the safe side

This isnt myth I have seen it and I feel I am a above avg tuner and tested with my own dynojet to test on , I am not here as some guy that has been told or my friends are doing it , I did it , I saw it , I have tested it

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Old 01-10-2013, 10:32 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
I am here to say I have seen dozens of well tuned blown e85 engines , I have had in my hands fuel pumps that looked like they sat in water or a corrosive for years but had only seen e fuel for less then a year , I have seen it eat through rubber hoses not ment for e fuels
I have tuned with this fuel , I have seen the customer return with in 2 weeks and retest and have as much as -5 deg knock on his knock sensor because the e85 he bought the first time was a better quality then what he now had in the car , I have seen pistons burned with holes because of spark knock and know the timing was to the safe side

This isnt myth I have seen it and I feel I am a above avg tuner and tested with my own dynojet to test on , I am not here as some guy that has been told or my friends are doing it , I did it , I saw it , I have tested it

Tom
Sounds like below average tuning skills using it in the wrong applications to me.

What cars and what mods?

If you are talking n/a and/or older cars with rubber lines, etc., then I see why you are having trouble.

I've seen people blown their motors on every type of fuel. That's the life when you are modding your car.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:18 AM   #48
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I wish I had e85 to play with when I had my Civic running. Made this li'l piece of art 15 minutes after installation completion, during street tuning on 11 psi. Granted, this was a standalone ECU, but with a base map, stock bottom end with hypereutectic pistons, and not enough safety built into the starting map.

Oopsie. Hindsight is 20/20 AMIRITE?

The forged bottom end got a professional dyno tune and did MUCH better. ;)

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Old 01-10-2013, 03:58 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enginjoe View Post
Sounds like below average tuning skills using it in the wrong applications to me.
I think if you do a little looking I am a good tuner that knows what he is doing and stays to the safe side of everything , NA big blocks , jets were changed , fuel systems brought up to e85 standards , boosted hondas tuned with hondata , nissans tuned with AEM standalones and it goes on and on , I tested e85 for a long time and on many many cars and yes it worked ok on some but the majority it didnt , the fuel was far to inconsistent

I can honestly say that not one car on e85 I could say wow that stuff works great , most of the time it was wow that cost a lot to get it to where you could safely us e85 (Injectors , fuel lines , fuel pumps, retune , dyno time etc) then I would ask why did you change only to get the answer that earls brothers next door neighbor said it would add 50 HP just by adding e85 and retuning , and in the end they all stated it wasnt worth the time and money spent for the little gains they got , even the ones that made a little power with it , not a one that I know of ran it long and went back to another tune on 95-100 fuels

Quote:
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I've seen people blown their motors on every type of fuel. That's the life when you are modding your car.
The cars I know about had been running 95 to 100 race fuel for years , after blowing engines on e85 went back to 95-100 and had no more issues and I wasnt the only tuner on all these cars but some

I 100% agree I also have seen people blow there engines on everything from e85 to c116 , all depends on the engine builder and engine tuner , I can say I have seen a far higher failure rate with e85 then 95+

Tom
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:24 AM   #50
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Not to be a fanboy or anything but Tom's knowledge, advice and wisdom is priceless. I've been lurking the forums for about 5 years and Tom has always been around to help. You can't buy better info than Tom provides for free. I can't say I've ever seen him stand behind any of his opinions without significant backing data or experience. Personally, I feel fortunate that we have his expertise to draw on. I for one do not feel safe using E85 after reading the facts and peoples' experiences. Why risk it, especially for what seem to be negligible gains for the money invested. I also might add that his FF reputation is well earned. You might stand to gain something by listening to an expert.
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