Another One Bites The Dust - Page 3

Just Tom · 01-07-2013, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hand-filer

How did you get a hold of Ford's new advertising copy?
By the way, we don't have a lemon law in Canada. We have an alternate recourse which involves arbitration and it's a very long drawn out process.

That sucks. Obviously the consumer protection laws are very different between Canada and the U.S. We also have arbitration/mediation here and when you buy a Ford the dealer has you sign an agreement saying that you agree to arbitrate. However, CA. State law says that consumers are not required to pursue arbitration. In most cases, if there has been at least 4 attempts to repair a warrantable item, then in most cases the car qualifies for the lemon law.

Back in 2000 when I went through my fiasco with my "lemon" I gave the manufacturer more than a reasonable number of attempts to fix the problem. I also went through the arbitration. Guess what? The panel consisted entirely of Ford employees and I was not allowed to attend the hearing. Huh? What a joke and waste of time that was. So as I mentioned earlier, after 12 attempts and 3 different dealers, I decided to stop my bitching and complaining and hired a real pro and it paid off for me. I wouldn't hesitate doing it again if i were ever in that same situation. People need to remember the law is designed to protect us from getting screwed and that includes manufacturers of automobiles. Here's another little tip that most people aren't aware....the lemon law applies to many other things, not just cars. The lemon law covers household appliances, electronics, etc.. It's a shame you don't have that in Canada.

Strix · 01-08-2013, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Tom

As for the rest of you guys, who claim that you'd be willing to take a loss and do anything to get rid of your nightmare car, why haven't you filed a lemon claim? I just don't get it. You guys lament about how terrible Ford is and how your car is making you miserable and yet so many just decide to either trade-in at a loss or do nothing and remain miserable, but most of you have never even pursued a lemon claim. Honestly it baffles me.

For the first year I had no problems at all.

SO, do you still think I should be pursuing a lemon law claim? On a car that's almost two years old and now has 45,000 miles on it? I can get a lemon law claim on this? And again, I had little trouble with the car for the first 15 months of ownership. Most of my troubles started with the dealership service department, not the factory.

Something that baffles me is people who post on forums like they know what the best course of action is for people, when they know little to nothing about that person's situation.

Since I can't file a lemon law claim, are you going to stop suggesting I'm an idiot for not doing so?

pozi240 · 01-08-2013, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strix

Since I can't file a lemon law claim, are you going to stop suggesting I'm an idiot for not doing so?

Where did Tom or anyone else for that matter call (or suggest) "you" were an idiot?? Defensive much? He wasn't even pointing his discussion at you, it was a general obsevation of this forum of late (and quite accurate by the way). You were obviously quite happy with the car for the first year of ownership, then you ran into dealership issues.... that isn't a "Lemon" by definition anyway, so, Tom's observation didn't even apply to yourself.

roswelltop · 01-08-2013, 08:00 AM

I can totally empathize with the many contributors to this forum whose car purchase has turned into a nightmare. As to the financial loss, think of it like divorce--it's gonna cost you a bundle to leave, but your sanity is more important than the money.

Of all the cars I have owned the best have been my 1995 Subaru Imprezza (a small tank), the 2004 and 2007 BMW's* and the 2011 & 2013 Focus' (except for Sync hiccups).

*BMW had high pressure fuel pump issues on the 2007 335i's. They immediately replaced the pumps and extended the warranty to 100,000 miles.

In addition, both of my Ford dealers have been great. I've had a couple of Sync issuers in the 2013 mostly involving it's ability to process voice commands with Mobil Apps, so the dealer is replacing the Sync module.

hotleadsingerguy · 01-08-2013, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Tom

People having problems with their car which Ford has been unsuccessful in repairing is not hard to comprehend. What is hard to comprehend are people who are willing to take the financial loss, instead of filing a lemon law claim to have their car replaced or their money refunded. It has never made much sense to me why people would accept a financial loss of potentially thousands of dollars versus having that money refunded to them through a lemon law claim.

Seems to me there must be a lot of people who are uninformed about their rights and incorrectly assume that hiring a lemon law attorney will cost them money.

You complain that Ford doesn't care about their customers. Well...I don't personally believe that, but you're welcome to think that if you like. However, I will say that people who decide to "bite the bullet" aren't helping matters either by going the trade-in route either. Why? When a person trades their car in all the problems and previous service history is swept under the carpet, so to speak and the problems get passed on to the new owner eventually. In the meantime, an opportunity to have the car repurchased under the lemon law has been missed. Think of it this way, not every car qualifies under the Lemon Law, but if every person who did qualify to file a claim traded their car instead, how would Ford ever know the extent of the problems that exist with their cars? See my point? On the other hand...if everyone who did qualify filed a Lemon Law claim instead, can you imagine the reaction from Ford? Not only would they be forced to repurchase all those automobiles, but at that point they'd be forced to deal with the problems. Anybody remember the Ford Pinto with the exploding gas tank? GM had a similar problem with the side saddle gas tanks on certain trucks sold under the GMC and Chevy name. Eventually all the lawsuits put both Ford and GM in a position where they had to reengineer and replace those faulty gas tanks. Same could happen with the Ford Focus.

I'm not an attorney, nor am I a litigous person, but I do believe that a remedy exists (lemon law) that many people simply aren't using. So again getting back to my earlier point, it's not hard to comprehend that there are lots of people who are unhappy with their cars, but rather it's the people who choose to walk away and take it in the shorts financially instead of using the process that exists to help such people. That I do find hard to comprehend.

The problem with that is that many of us that are having problems have had our cars far more than a year. I had mine for 18 months (bought and received in the beginning of April, 2011), so the lemon law does not apply. The car wasn't in the shop the specified number of times or amount of days within the first year.

Do you really think we're all that stupid to miss something like getting all of our money back? The original members of this section of the forum have been here for 18-20+ months.

I agree that Ford won't do anything as long as we don't bring it to their attention, but most of us have been bringing it to their attention since the beginning. Ford just ignores everything we do. Many of us have filled out BBB complaints, federal complaints, complaints with Ford, complaints to dealerships, etc... and Ford just ignores it all.

kam327 · 01-08-2013, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feta_mgp

As does any new car in it's first MY. Though the Focus has had more problems crop up than many others in their first year in the last decade or so (I ran comparisons in another thread of the Focus, Mazda 3, Corolla, Forte, and a few others) something of note is that its also far more technology-laden than the rest of the pack it competes against, without being far more expensive.

Transmissions often seem to be trouble spots. Early '00s Audi CVTs. '06 Explorer 6-speeds. I'm interested how the '13 Accord CVTs and Mazda Skyactiv trannies are doing. The former is a proven tech but new to Honda and the latter is a new hybrid tech. I looked at an Accord forum and the only CVT complaint I saw was some low speed jerkiness that some complained didn't befit an otherwise highly refined car. Haven't looked into the Skyactiv yet. Anybody else know of any 1st year problems with those?

hotleadsingerguy · 01-08-2013, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Tom

Chum at least you attempted a lemon claim, so nobody could claim that you didn't try. As for the rest of you guys, who claim that you'd be willing to take a loss and do anything to get rid of your nightmare car, why haven't you filed a lemon claim? I just don't get it. You guys lament about how terrible Ford is and how your car is making you miserable and yet so many just decide to either trade-in at a loss or do nothing and remain miserable, but most of you have never even pursued a lemon claim. Honestly it baffles me.

Here's my story. In 2000 I bought a brand new sedan. I brought the car home and within the first week I began having problems. In fact, the car left me stranded and wouldn't start within the first 100 miles of ownership. There were a few issues, but all of them had to do with electrical. Bottom line, just like the rest of you guys I was fed up from being fed up and after about 12 visits to 3 different dealers I said, "Enough!" and filed a lemon claim. I hired an attorney who only handles lemon law cases and guess what happened? I got ALL OF MY MONEY BACK! Instead of me taking a $3000, $4000 or $5000 loss or rolling negative equity into my new car. I was refunded my downpayment: $1,500. + total of car payments (23): $11,500 + parts/service charges: $389 + tax/title/registration: $2,100 = GRAND TOTAL REFUNDED $15,489. With a portion of that money I upgraded and bought a much nicer car. The rest of the money I put in my savings account. End of story.

Here's the best part. The amount I paid my attorney........wait for it............NOTHING! Zip, zilch, zero nada! $0.00 So now, having explained all that, maybe you can understand why I find it so hard to understand why people who bitch and complain so much would be willing to accept a financial loss when they can solve their problem and at the same time turn a loss in to a financial gain. Then again as the old saying goes: " A fool and his money are soon parted." But hey....to each his own I guess.

We're all glad it worked out for you, but I think you should refrain from using any more "old sayings". You know nothing about any of the situations people on this forum are in, regardless of what they post here. Acting like you do makes *you* look foolish, not the other way around. Please don't disrespect other users because you think they should have done something differently.

For some of us, paying any amount of money to get rid of a problem is better than keeping the problem around and hoping it works out. Maybe we're better-off, financially, or maybe we're just more fickle with our expenditures, but it's not your position to judge. If I have to throw away $5k just to no longer deal with a problem I've been dealing with for a year and half...I'm fine with it. I've dealt with Ford since the beginning, and outside of Lemon Law the only possibility is their arbitration, since in some states it's not illegal to force customers to sign for arbitration clauses.

Point being: You know nothing about our situations. Don't patronize people on this forum by explaining what worked for you as if it were the perfect fit for everyone.

pozi240: His passive "old saying" quote subtly made the point that Ford goes after us because we're fools and they know they can make money easily.

dan50 · 01-08-2013, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strix

For the first year I had no problems at all.

SO, do you still think I should be pursuing a lemon law claim? On a car that's almost two years old and now has 45,000 miles on it? I can get a lemon law claim on this? And again, I had little trouble with the car for the first 15 months of ownership. Most of my troubles started with the dealership service department, not the factory.

Something that baffles me is people who post on forums like they know what the best course of action is for people, when they know little to nothing about that person's situation.

Since I can't file a lemon law claim, are you going to stop suggesting I'm an idiot for not doing so?

Lemon Laws vary by state, but typically are only good for the first 12 months/12,000 miles and generally have words like "...a nonconformity that substantially impairs the use, market value or safety of the vehicle..." or "the vehicle has been out of service more than 30 days". The intent of Lemon Laws was to help consumers if they got a car which didn't work, not with a car that didn't behave perfectly.

The things we rightly complain about in this forum are probably not Lemon Law issues. Driveability issues like DCT clutch chatter or grinding may not "substantially impair the use" (it still gets you there) and Ford will maintain it's a characteristic of the technology so not a "nonconformity" anyway. MFT bugs wouldn't meet the "substantially" criteria. Front suspension clunks probably won't either.

Now some have had their cars out of service for more than 30 days, which should easily qualify, but most here are probably out of luck. If you car has problems, keep working with the service department. If that doesn't work, appeal to Ford. If that doesn't work, appeal to the dealer. If that doesn't work, live with it or trade it. And if you think Ford has sold you a bill of goods with the Focus remember the old adage: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."