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Old 12-06-2012, 12:49 PM   #71
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Actually what I'm saying is that the smartest thing to do is to buy the size car you need ... equipped REASONABLY ... neither stripped .... nor loaded.

Do we REALLY need cars that tell us we're out of our lane ?

Do we REALLY need cars that park themselves ?

Do we REALLY need cars whose speed controls use radar to work ?

Do we REALLY need cars that let us look at a TV screen instead of looking in a mirror or out the back window ?

If the answer for you (not you specifically kam) is yes ... then buy them and live with the consequences of crushing depreciation.

My car was $16,500 ... it has a sunroof, mag wheels, it's a great color, it has lots of power options, it DOESN'T have a transmission that has tons of problems, and it DOESN'T have an 'infotainment' system that locks up, needs constant updates, reboots without warning, and has a crappy nav system to boot. It's a pretty nice car, and if I needed to sell it right now I could probably get pretty good money for it .... especially since Ford changed all the option packages around for 2013 so that the same car would be thousands more if equipped the same way today.

REV
Come on, rev ! I live in 2012 not in 1990. I want an infotainment system, I want all the security features that are out-there. If I didn't want them, I'd have bought a 1990 car and be happy with it. I stop my rant here, but I really don't see your point. Following your thinking, why do we'd buy a car that has auto-dimming rear mirrors or HID lights or 7 speeds. 4 speeds are great, bulbs are enough and so on.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:02 PM   #72
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Come on, rev ! I live in 2012 not in 1990. I want an infotainment system, I want all the security features that are out-there. If I didn't want them, I'd have bought a 1990 car and be happy with it. I stop my rant here, but I really don't see your point. Following your thinking, why do we'd buy a car that has auto-dimming rear mirrors or HID lights or 7 speeds. 4 speeds are great, bulbs are enough and so on.
Then PAY FOR IT, and stop bitching about losing $10K on depreciation .... (not you specifically voldar) ....

And not only that ... your argument above about those little things is not valid, in that a lot of the things you mention don't take the price of a car From $20K to $30K, and result in an almost instant $10K loss.

That is my point.

If you don't want to be somewhat 'reasonable' when purchasing big ticket items like a car .... then you have no business bitching about losing a lot of money based on your purchase decision.

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Old 12-06-2012, 01:06 PM   #73
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You guys are missing a BIG part of the picture, the intangible value of being comfortable and satisfied in a space most people spend an hour to an hour and a half of their days in. If someone feels that a computer gadget to play around with while sitting at lights will make them enjoy their commute more, then by all means they should pay extra for MFT in their car. So what if it's not worth anything when you get rid of it? How many hours of enjoyment did you get out of it at the end for that money? It's no different than most electronics out there.

Same with houses. Many folks spend money upgrading their houses to their own personal taste to enjoy them more while they live in them and often do not get that money back at selling time. Pools may be the #1 example.
^^^ THIS! ^^^ I completely agree. Buying cars is a very personal thing and as kam327 pointed out we spend a lot of time in our cars, obviously some more than others. If you add it all up, the total time we spend in our cars commuting adds up to weeks/months every year. So as those miles pile on the question is what kind of comfort do you expect/need? We all have certain minimal expectations. For me I require a comfortable and supportive seat for long drives because I am one of those people who tends to put on a lot of miles. Also I wouldn't buy any car that doesn't have heated leather seats, moonroof and navigation. Just as power windows, power doors, power brakes, air conditioning and power steering have all become standard on most makes and models, for most people those items are probably minimal required equipment to begin with. So for me, when I bought my Focus, I bought the Titanium trim package and had it equipped with Navi, Sport Package and Moonroof. I didn't get the Park Assist because I felt that was one option that I didn't need to have. Obviously the sticker price on my car was somewhere around $27k. For me it's worth it, to somebody else perhaps not. On the other hand, I didn't finance very much, so if I ever wanted to get out my car I would be able to do it.

I do agree with the basic premise though that all cars depreciate and that you don't get dollar for dollar what you paid for upgrades. On the other hand, sometimes having those options can make all the difference when it comes to finding the right buyer for your car when it comes time to sell. Also, more people are interested in buying cars in colors like black, silver, white and grey than they are yellow, purple or green. It's called marketability. In the same way, having a car with all the bells and whistles has broader appeal.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:09 PM   #74
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rev, I agree with you when you say "pay for it and stop complaining". Though, as you might have seen here, I am not complaining about my Focus. In fact I love it !

But, infotainement + GPS + backup camera + DCT + Autodimming Mirror + leather + 17" wheels does make the price tag go up from 20k to 30k (in Canada). I don't know how it is in US though, but I think I am not that far from reality.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:12 PM   #75
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^^^ THIS! ^^^ I completely agree. Buying cars is a very personal thing and as kam327 pointed out we spend a lot of time in our cars, obviously some more than others. If you add it all up, the total time we spend in our cars commuting adds up to weeks/months every year. So as those miles pile on the question is what kind of comfort do you expect/need? We all have certain minimal expectations. For me I require a comfortable and supportive seat for long drives because I am one of those people who tends to put on a lot of miles. Also I wouldn't buy any car that doesn't have heated leather seats, moonroof and navigation. Just as power windows, power doors, power brakes, air conditioning and power steering have all become standard on most makes and models, for most people those items are probably minimal required equipment to begin with. So for me, when I bought my Focus, I bought the Titanium trim package and had it equipped with Navi, Sport Package and Moonroof. I didn't get the Park Assist because I felt that was one option that I didn't need to have. Obviously the sticker price on my car was somewhere around $27k. For me it's worth it, to somebody else perhaps not. On the other hand, I didn't finance very much, so if I ever wanted to get out my car I would be able to do it.

Absolutely agreed. Buy what you want/need ... and then LIVE WITH THAT DECISION.

To be honest ... I'm a little surprised at the 'shock' that many here are exhibiting regarding the trade-in values of their loaded Foci.

You have an outrageously incentivized economy car .... one that has had, and does have, a multitude of issues that don't seem to be resolved at this point, very low new-car financing rates, and huge discounts off of the sticker prices .... what else could happen except huge depreciation ????


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Old 12-06-2012, 01:19 PM   #76
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rev, I agree with you when you say "pay for it and stop complaining". Though, as you might have seen here, I am not complaining about my Focus. In fact I love it !

But, infotainement + GPS + backup camera + DCT + Autodimming Mirror + leather + 17" wheels does make the price tag go up from 20k to 30k (in Canada). I don't know how it is in US though, but I think I am not that far from reality.
No ... I know it wasn't you complaining voldar ... I like my Focus too, but I DO wish they'd get the suspension clunking figured out.

It's not so much the above options that you mention killing the price ... it's the REQUIRED PACKAGES that you need to get in order to get those options. Too bad you can't get them a la carte.

I'm only going by what some of the people complaining have said their cars cost. They're forgetting that they only paid $25K for their '$30K' car .... and now it's worth between $18-20K and they're upset ... because they still owe $27K. I'd be upset too. Car dealers are financing 120% of retail value just to sell cars ... that's how they can roll the 'upside-down amount' into the new finance contract. People are gonna be upside down with these cars for YEARS. There comes a time when the amount that's upside down can't be rolled into a new note .... THEN they REALLY ARE STUCK with the car.

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Old 12-06-2012, 01:36 PM   #77
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Absolutely agreed. Buy what you want/need ... and then LIVE WITH THAT DECISION.

To be honest ... I'm a little surprised at the 'shock' that many here are exhibiting regarding the trade-in values of their loaded Foci.

You have an outrageously incentivized economy car .... one that has had, and does have, a multitude of issues that don't seem to be resolved at this point, very low new-car financing rates, and huge discounts off of the sticker prices .... what else could happen except huge depreciation ????


REV
DING! DING! DING! You hit the nail on the head. Let's see....0% APR for 5 YEARS!! Um....about $1,000 in rebates/incentives, cars selling nowhere close to window sticker (at or below invoice) combined with all the other points you made and we have the recipe for low trade-in value. Aside from F-series trucks, what Ford is known to have good resale value? Answer: None. Car buyers who are looking for high resale value shouldn't look to Ford anyway, especially the Focus, instead they should opt for Honda, VW, Audi, etc..
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:39 PM   #78
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.... instead they should opt for Honda, VW, Audi, etc..
minus Audi; buying a luxury car is retarded, they lose value faster than loaded a focus. You buy an Audi because you want an Audi, not a sound investment. to each his own
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:53 PM   #79
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No ... I know it wasn't you complaining voldar ... I like my Focus too, but I DO wish they'd get the suspension clunking figured out.

It's not so much the above options that you mention killing the price ... it's the REQUIRED PACKAGES that you need to get in order to get those options. Too bad you can't get them a la carte.

I'm only going by what some of the people complaining have said their cars cost. They're forgetting that they only paid $25K for their '$30K' car .... and now it's worth between $18-20K and they're upset ... because they still owe $27K. I'd be upset too. Car dealers are financing 120% of retail value just to sell cars ... that's how they can roll the 'upside-down amount' into the new finance contract. People are gonna be upside down with these cars for YEARS. There comes a time when the amount that's upside down can't be rolled into a new note .... THEN they REALLY ARE STUCK with the car.

REV
Another excellent point. When you exceed 100% LTV (loan to value) you can be assured that you're going to be upside for two reasons. 1) Normal depreciation 2) Loan payoff exceeds value. Pretty basic stuff, but it's a point that I think a lot of people probably forget after the ink dries on their contract.
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:59 PM   #80
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minus Audi; buying a luxury car is retarded, they lose value faster than loaded a focus. You buy an Audi because you want an Audi, not a sound investment. to each his own
Agreed. Cars are not "good investments" to begin with, excepting of course the very rare investment grade collectible.
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