SCT doesn't want our money

[iminhell]

Originally Posted by Sonic_HedgeHog

I actually know someone that can answer yes to all your hacking needs ;)

Thanks John for the support

What I'm saying / eluding to, is that maybe a public poll should be done. That way if someone from SCT would happen to stroll through, they'd know if there was a viable market for products.

I'm pretty sure they don't want to spend time reading through a bunch of posts to find out who's all interested just to find out that in 300 posts it's only been 6-7 people conversing.

The easier you can make the job on them the better and the quicker you may see products ...

[ViperThreat]

TBH, i would focus on asking another tuning company, SCT has made it clear multiple times that they only care about the green in their pocket, and to hell with customer service and consumer opinion.

I had to threaten a lawsuit (including a serious letter from the family lawyer) before they agreed to fix my car after their tuner fried my PCM. I understand that Tom had also threatened them regarding similar problems.

Even when they did finally give in, everything was done grudgingly, and at an extremely low pace. I am not alone. More specifically, i am now a statistic of the many people who have had serious and severe issues with SCT products and service.

If there are possible alternatives, I would focus on them first and foremost.

[greg hazlett]

I think part of it may be that another part of the issue is the manufacturers are encrypting the software on the cars to protrect them from tuners; the tuners need to be allowed "access" to the software from Ford and that isn't happenig as much as it used to....the argument to what I just said is that somehow the ST software was "cracked" already but I will bet Ford was somehow involved in that.

[Blivit]

Now, lets see how long it takes before the "why can't you just make a tune.." and "we want a tune, there is a market.." posts come up. And, just how many pm's and nasty replies I will receive for stepping into this thread....

Only 2 people in this entire thread and the other one relating to the 2012 have a clue how this works. Notice I didn't say on this board or on our facebook page or any place else.

I wanted to stay out of it, but several things need to be said. iminhell and greg hazlett, thank you. Thank you for understanding how ecu's work. Thank you for understanding how marketing works. Thank you for understanding how business models work. And lastly, thank you for understanding how profit works. SCT is a business. We have employees to pay. I am sure most of you work for a business as well. If your company decided to focus all of its energy, resources and money to capture something that is maybe 1% of its total market and customer base, how would you feel about it? It is often difficult to straddle that line between making customers happy and running a successful business.

We have never once said we will not support the platform. If we wished to stop or not look into it further we would say so. Look at our dodge support. We were working on it then literally stopped cold after the 2006 model year. We informed all of our customers of this. And, we have also gone through the same thing that is happening here. People want it, we don't have it so people are pissed off. Sorry, we don't support it.

We understand the need. My main focus here is international technical development. Numerous requests have come from all over the world; we get it. We are not ignoring or hiding anything. We have always been the ones with the largest level of Ford support. If you want to tune a 93 escort, our software can do it. Most companies stick to the "big boys" but we have always gone after everything.

Have we had cars in? Yep. Can we read and write information to the processor? Yep. Now, lets take this a step further. What is involved in "creating a tune" Well, 2 things basically. You have to be able to read and write information to the processor. You also have to know where tables are with all of their associated information and be able to calculate the checksums correctly so that you can actually change things.

Manufacturers are making the process of finding the tables and calculating checksums increasingly difficult. Compare what you can find for say a vehicle from 1995 to what you can find for a vehicle from 2011. How many "binary editor" companies exist for something from 1995? How many "software and hardware" pieces can you find for something from 1995? Now, how many of the same companies exist for 2011 models? 2010 models? Hell, even 2005 models? Yes there has been more time for people to figure those things out but that also tells you that the level of security there is much less than what it is now. This information doesn't just fall off a truck; manufacturers do not want people like us in there.

So now lets look at the ST vs the non-St argument. I ask that you look at it entirely from a sales, enthusiast and power increase standpoint. Yes there are more non-ST but truthfully what percentage of non-ST owners will flash or modify their cars vs ST owners? If you really look at all of the complaints and requests we have seen, there are many repeats and not many individual customers. And what kind of gains will be had on a NA 2.0 engine with just a tune vs a FI 2.0? Yes being able to modify the ecu leads way for items to be ADDED like FI but when you are comparing what is gained percentage wise, out of the box on a car that already has the parts it is a no brainer.

In closing what you decide to do as a group is entirely up to you. If you want to spam our page, threaten, boycott, blow up our facebook page etc. you can certainly do so. However, as mentioned here that is really not he right way to go about things and is rather childish.

[TiStick]

Blivit, thanks for the response. I hope that you can make a business case for us at some point.

Many of us want the tuning ability so that we can attract other bolt on aftermarket parts. I'm sure you will agree, just adding a part w/o a tune can be just as bad as having a bad tune. We want to be able to mod, and mod safely, by monitoring and adjusting the tune to fit the parts(intakes, headers, cams, FI, etc). We seem to not be able to get one without the other, but I also can't get the other without the one. Chicken or egg, I need both.

I truly appreciate you replying to this thread. Perhaps we baited/postured, but it is the first time a discussion has taken place.

[Slo86GT]

Originally Posted by Blivit

In closing (...) that is really (...) childish.

Do what you do SCT. I'd much rather have a killer tune for my wife's Mustang than my DD Focus. ;)

[ctvfam]

SCT I appreciate taking the time to respond, I may be new here but I know childish acts like boycotts and Facebook posting will only hurt this group in the long run.

I hope you will be able to justify moving forward with this project as it seems you already have time invested in it. The majority of people willing to tune a N/A car will only increase with time and more aftermarket support. And many of us would appreciate the increased drive ability and trans tunes, after all I think we can admit we didn't buy a 400hp 1/4mi car here, but tearing up a canyon road would be a lot better with a tune.

Thank you

[JL330]

With all these issues, would it be possible to just swap in the engine and ecu out of an st?

[mac.mogul]

Originally Posted by JL330

With all these issues, would it be possible to just swap in the engine and ecu out of an st?

I think it would be cheaper and easier to just trade your '12 in on an ST and pay the difference.

[dyn085]

I will echo TiStick's thanks for an actual response, but also need to point out that even though it is more worded than anything we've seen from SCT, it is just as vague. Even though many of us want a tune from SCT, right now most of us just want confirmation in one direction or another of whether or not SCT will support the platform. We are simply tired of being led to believe that it may or may not happen. Our vehicles were available and being driven for nearly a full year and a half before the ST, but within 30 days of release the ST has dyno charts of tuning gains. We just want a direct yes or no as it has been nearly two years since the first car rolled off the lot.

You can't claim that none of us are aware of marketing or cost basis/profit analysis. We know that our one single tuner is not going to make SCT enough money to no longer need to support any other vehicle, but at the same time there are many of us that believe that our little N/A Focus will be in the black when viewed on your balance sheets. None of us are privy to your companies data (past sales, etc.) in order to have a more balanced discussion in that realm, but much of that is a relative moot point due to the drastic change of the vehicle/powertrain.

We have never said that it would be easy either (as a whole). True enthusiasts understand that work and datalogging is required to create software that works correctly and is reliable. We understand that this is not an overnight deal. If this were easy, by now an enthusiast would have figured it out and we would be rolling. That is why we look to companies such as yours and we hang on your companies words the way we do. But if the information doesn't just fall off the truck, then many of us are confused as to why it takes 30 days to tune an ST when you've had 18 times that amount to tune the N/A.

In regards to your ST/Non discussion, what percentage of ST owners do you think actually will tune their vehicle? While the overall percentage is definitively higher, the overall number (strictly my assumption) is probably lower. Realistically, many people whom can afford the ST (in the grand scheme of life, outside of people fanatical about the Focus) are going to pay a few thousand dollars more and step into the Mustang GT. Most of the people that will want to tune a Focus are going to fall into the crowd of people whom couldn't afford the ST and stepped into a lower N/A model, but want to dump a few thousand dollars more into getting nearer to ST performance.

As for power increase... We're all adults here. We know that you can't tune a N/A vehicle and achieve the same performance gains that will be seen on a FI vehicle. Tuning is not about getting max power out of an engine otherwise people would be punching holes in their blocks all the time and your company would quickly lose business. Tuning is about being able to safely extract as much power as possible given the engines currently modified state. But if you look at the dyno charts of many of us that have been working our cars you might see that there is probably a decently hidden gain in simply tuning, as the simple bolt-ons are showing surprising results. Besides, I would gladly purchase a tuner even if it was only showing a marginal gain simply because it would give me peace of mind that I won't burn my pistons or valves.

Yes, I'm sure that the majority of complaints you see are coming from a relatively select group. But what about those like myself, which I'm sure that there are more of, that simply try to keep their mouth shut? Just because I'm not blowing up your page doesn't mean that I'm not a possible customer. What about the guy who gets on the Internet to see if Google has a tune available for the 2012 Focus, finds nothing, and simply logs off. Is he also not a potential customer? Yes, we have people trying to stir the pot, but it's with the intent of showing your company that there is a market. If nobody said anything then you would assume there was no market and not even consider it.

Sorry for the lengthy response, but I don't take well to people condescending me. Whether it was your intention or not is a moot point because I can understand why you would have frustration with some of our members. Just know that the frustration you have is simply a mirror. Again, I do appreciate you taking the time to give us an actual response.

Duane