Can you overtighten axle nuts? - Page 3 - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > General Technical Chat

General Technical Chat This section is for technical discussions relating to general maintenance, electrical issues, engine trouble, and recalls.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2012, 11:23 PM   #21
amc49
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 4,801
FF Reputation: 23 amc49 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
So what do we call you, Rip Van Winkle? Because you are about 20 years behind the times.

Your response, or 'a few sets', says it all, I've never used that many even on 5 cars put together.

There are different types of bearings, and they tighten differently based on application.
amc49 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-22-2012, 11:34 PM   #22
TheGlassMaker
REVOLT.BUILD.RISE
 
TheGlassMaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Fan#: 69510
Location: De Graff, OH
What I Drive: 97 Impreza coupe, 04 Mazda6

Posts: 8,177
FF Reputation: 13 TheGlassMaker Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (5)
Quote:
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
So what do we call you, Rip Van Winkle? Because you are about 20 years behind the times.

Your response, or 'a few sets', says it all, I've never used that many even on 5 cars put together.

There are different types of bearings, and they tighten differently based on application.
I went through a few set cause it was lifted with larger than factory wheels and tires on it, and I took it mudding all the time. Lots of cake in mud and water will eat through the grease, that and the added stress from the bigger tires will cause more than normal wear on suspension, bearings, and joints. Doesn't look like I was saying everyone else was wrong I was simply asking. Anyone will tell you metal will expand when heated up. Mybad for commenting on the internet, I didn't know you owned the place.
__________________
Do one thing every day that scares you. -Eleanor Roosevelt
TheGlassMaker is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2012, 12:02 AM   #23
amc49
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 4,801
FF Reputation: 23 amc49 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I apologize.

Think about it, if metal expands when heated, if both parts are same metal, won't they both expand the same? Meaning no need to make up for it?
amc49 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 11:40 PM   #24
freemind
Vince your Moderator
 
freemind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Fan#: 67513
Location: Seattle, WA
What I Drive: 2002 ZX3 and a 2010 Focus SE (Work)

Posts: 4,183
FF Reputation: 22 freemind Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (20)
Well I got the car in the air last night and, the drivers side rear was seized to the spindle. So I removed the drum with the spindle attached and put it in a vice and took the air-hammer to it. Bam, it released then. The brakes looked really good but needed adjusted badly. New drums with bearings=no noise.
__________________
133whp-126ftlbsTQ Eclipse CD8443,Eclipse PA5422, JBL GTO751EZ, PPI 356cs(Rebranded A/D/S 346cs), JBL p1024, SubThump enclosure, RAAmat BXT, Damplifier Pro

Hatch Nation #140
Caeci caecos ducentes

Last edited by freemind; 11-26-2012 at 04:18 AM.
freemind is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2012, 11:47 PM   #25
amc49
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 4,801
FF Reputation: 23 amc49 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Use a foot long piece of 2X4 and a baby sledge to remove tire/wheel, put the board on rubber not wheel edge. May have to go side to side, they always come off doing that. Antiseize on center raised pilot edge helps next time.
amc49 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 05:31 AM   #26
whynotthinkwhynot
Captain TMI
 
whynotthinkwhynot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Fan#: 18416
Location: the armpit of TN, Memphis, TN
What I Drive: 05 ZXW; 02 Windstar; 13 C-Max SEL

Posts: 20,128
FF Reputation: 270 whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Huh... I thought we were talking about fronts not rears for some reason. IIRC the rears had a torque as high as the fronts- or nearly so. When you're dealing with that much torque, then it's not holding a bearing in like would be the case on the front of a RWD vehicle. Those don't generally have more than 30 ft-lbs, and a cotter pin/castle nut is what holds it in place when properly installed.

Worrying about torque exactness when you're dealing with around 200 ft-lbs is as silly as worrying about putting 5 qts in an engine when the capacities in the OM state 4.5 qts. Without such worry there might be less of a call for things like Tums or BC (Goodys!) powder, so like move forward bravely bro! You are now qualified to remove VW Type 1 drums except that you might need a small glass pipe in addition to the long metal one.

To the OP and OP help: I'd put money on that spindle being spent whether the bearing spun or not. Use your best judgement, but be prepared to replace the spindle next time. We've had more than one FF have issues with new bearings that are due to a spent spindle.
__________________
Be eclectic.
---The Complete How-To Archive--

Moderating everything now, let me know if I can help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the user formerly known as ZX3_Chick View Post
You're special aren't you.
whynotthinkwhynot is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 05:34 PM   #27
amc49
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Fan#: 96610
Location: Fort Worth, TX
What I Drive: 00 wagon, 02 sedan both zetec atx

Posts: 4,801
FF Reputation: 23 amc49 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Soooooooooooooo......................what planet do you hail from, space brother?

Here on planet earth tightening old school tapered roller wheel bearings is done in INCH pounds not foot, 30 ft.lbs. and you're walking home in five minutes. I usually use 15-20 in.lbs., but much of it is feel for looseness just disappearing. A torque wrench 6 inches long.

LOL...............IIRC indeed.

Right on the no need for exact torque thing, I use anywhere from 175-200 ft.lbs. now on all 4 of mine, I like closer to 200 though.

Dunno about the 5 quart in 4.5 statement. Zetecs have a shallow secondary pan, if the addition of the extra half quart filled enough to let some show through the slat holes of the upper pan reinforcement, then one could lose a bit of power there as crank started eating oil, could induce some air injection into oil too. Maybe tear up a motor under hard use? Not like earlier stuff with more distance there. Ford spent a bit of time designing that middle reinforcement to recoup a bit of friction HP loss.

I have not filled up a pan with 4.5 quarts to check level, but I will if motor ever comes apart, I like to know things like that. Problem is, I can't seem to break one of these. Not gonna disassemble a perfectly running motor like I would when I was young and stupid................

Maybe someone else can chime in.
amc49 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2012, 07:35 PM   #28
sailor
"Elder"
 
sailor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Fan#: 57268
Location: Williamsville, NY
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black ZTS 2.3 5spd.

Posts: 13,432
FF Reputation: 67 sailor Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Methinks our "space brother" mis-spoke, as I'm SURE he wouldn't be taking a torque wrench at 30lb. to the bearings in question...

(grin)

To an 18 Wheeler, to "set" them while turning them, B4 backing it off & re-torquing to a lower number - yeah, I've done that....
sailor is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 05:29 AM   #29
whynotthinkwhynot
Captain TMI
 
whynotthinkwhynot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Fan#: 18416
Location: the armpit of TN, Memphis, TN
What I Drive: 05 ZXW; 02 Windstar; 13 C-Max SEL

Posts: 20,128
FF Reputation: 270 whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Capacities listed in the OM do not include the filter. Not that our filters hold 1/2 a qt anyway, but I've been putting in 5 qts every change since 05 when it had 5 miles on the odo. Nothing broke in 150k.

That was an old argument I had with people who were being silly worrying that they'd overfill and blow the rings out over 1/2 qt. I drove an old Datsun once with like 8 qts in it. Not my fault, but it happened. That's when I learned there are old wives tales, and old men's tales. Accidents like that are how I learned a lot of things.

The only reason for that much torque is to insure the nut has reached the bottom of the threads.
__________________
Be eclectic.
---The Complete How-To Archive--

Moderating everything now, let me know if I can help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the user formerly known as ZX3_Chick View Post
You're special aren't you.
whynotthinkwhynot is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:58 PM   #30
Grumpy
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Fan#: 43791
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
What I Drive: 2005 Sonic Blue ZX3

Posts: 868
FF Reputation: 28 Grumpy Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
You don't want the nut to "reach the bottom of the threads" (commonly called being "threadbound") because in the case of the Focus wheel bearings the nut would not be applying any clampup force which is what is required here. The torque applied (including what the torque wrench was indicating) would be meaningless. The torque value range specified is required to have the nut apply the desired clampup force.
As to the OPs original question......the torque values/torque procedures listed in the Owner's Manual, the Service/Shop Manuals, TBs or Tech Tips have not just been pulled out of thin air. The listed torque values such as in this application are determined by engineers who take the expected loads, the materials used, fits and clearances etc, into account. In the example of the rear wheel bearing/axle nut, obviously if you got really carried away and went way over the specified torque you could shear off the end of the spindle, or you could over stress it and you wouldn't know it until it broke off when you were driving along.
Grumpy is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks
-->
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.