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Old 10-15-2012, 06:57 AM   #51
Tiger-Heli
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianm View Post
I just have one question. Why not use a stand alone relay harness kit with a small discreet switch like some of the pilot kits. No wire tampering no splicing no worries no voiding warrenties.
Sure, you can do that - essentially, that's pretty much what Chaddz3 (sp?) ended up doing (basically).

As far as why you might not want to:
  • That solution will essentially turn the fog lights on and off with the external switch - not when the headlights are turned on and off (unless you wire the switch inline with the headlights - but that defeats the purposes of your argument).
  • It would be preferable to use the OEM headlight switch rather than having an aftermarket toggle switch in a brand new car - not that it won't work, but it won't look factory.
  • Ford already runs the wiring from the BCM to the front bumper - they just don't have the harness to the fogs or the harness to the switch installed - so you would be having to run your own wiring through the firewall and duplicating unused wiring that was already there.
  • There is wire splicing involved - just not splicing into factory wiring. There is also a connection to the battery so there is somewhat of a warranty concern - although in either case the modification that was done would have to cause an issue for them to deny warranty coverage.

FWIW ...
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:54 PM   #52
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re

Well it wouldn't look factory true. There isn't any splicing cause its a stand alone system all it does is run off the battery with a couple of grounds at a couple of frame bolts, as a former dealership mechanic stand alone fog light systems never void warrentys cause they don't alter any systems. Your more apt to void a warrenty putting in a autostart in. Second of all if ford made it with all the wiring than why is the circuit for the fuse incomplete? I would also say that if u need to replace the bcm there is reason to believe they wanted to make it as hard as possible for dyi to tamper with the system.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:08 PM   #53
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A couple of your points are off - mostly technicalities, but still ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianm View Post
There isn't any splicing cause its a stand alone system all it does is run off the battery with a couple of grounds at a couple of frame bolts
There are splices - just not into the FACTORY wiring. (And there is a tie-in to the factory wiring at the battery).

Quote:
as a former dealership mechanic stand alone fog light systems never void warrentys cause they don't alter any systems. Your more apt to void a warrenty putting in a autostart in.
No modification voids a warranty unless the failure in question was caused by the modification. (Granted, you are less likely to have to argue that with the dealership with a standalone fog installation than one that splices into the factory wiring.)

Quote:
Second of all if ford made it with all the wiring than why is the circuit for the fuse incomplete?
The BCM's are different - it was apparently cheaper to stock two different BCM's than to make different trim level vehicles have different wire harnesses.

Quote:
I would also say that if u need to replace the bcm there is reason to believe they wanted to make it as hard as possible for dyi to tamper with the system.
It's not really tamper-resistance - they want to make it more attractive for the customer to pay $1700 for the SE over the S in 2012 or the $2700 for the SE Appearance over the SE in 2013 than to spend $500 in BCM/s and Fog lights and getting the car re-programmed at the dealer in IDS.

Last edited by Tiger-Heli; 10-17-2012 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:54 PM   #54
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What is Ford's part number for the black bezels? I have the chrome and I hate them.
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2012 Oxford White SE 5-speed w/ Sport & Winter Package || Steeda STS | FSWerks Intake | Custom S.S. Catback Exhaust | Aluminum Pedals | Clear Bra Hood Wrap | 35% Tint | Tinted Tails | White Badges
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:15 PM   #55
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Black or Black/Chrome?

The black/Chrome were on the Titanium model - I think the solid black were only on the export models.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:33 PM   #56
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Y Well I'm not here to argue a point, the reason for my inital response was to offer suggestions that were safer for the car and eayser to install. Personally I don't care how someone installs a fog light kit in there car. I'm personally going to do it with a stand alone system, second there's no splicing when I attach the possitive feed to the battery cable with a waterproof ring terminal, as u mentioned before we don't want to mess up on techanical points. And splicing involves cutting and soldering. As far as warrenty I guess if u left the lights on it could kill the battery and that wouldnt be covered under warrenty, but as you already know the battery isn't covered under the mfg warrenty, it has a independant warrenty threw the batt mfg. I guess final would be the bcm issue that everyone seems hung up on. If the wire is missing from the fuse box.that tells me that its a different wire harness. Soooo my oppinion is that usually they do that to save on over all weight of the car. As far as the bcm I'm not supprised that the mfg uses different bcms for different trim packages. Being in the partsand service business for as many years as I have I've seen a lot of the same kind of car with different computers, its always a major laugh when I get a customer that says, arnt they all the same?
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:40 AM   #57
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@ BrianM.. I was originally hoping to do a complete factory type install using the factory headlight/foglight switch, utilizing the unused factory wiring and building an OEM comparible accessory fog harness (minus the parking sensor wiring). I wanted my install to be indistinguishable from the OEM design as far as looks and operation. Unfortunately in my case since my BCM was not foglight compatible (the fog light fuse is actually part of the BCM). The wiring from the BCM to the front bumper is identical regardless of trim level.


I had to do my alternative method.. since the wiring comes up to the BCM itself and all the wires i needed to splice in to were all right there behind the glovebox, it was the easiest way to do it, plus being inside the car, they are more protected from the elements than if i had done stand alone system under the hood and i wouldnt have to figure out how to route the wiring from the lights to the dash for the toggle..

I did my installation the way I did because it was the easiest, cheapest and In my humble opinion, safest way to do it and still meet the objectives the project had to adhere to..

It had to look like an OEM factory installation as much as possible...
and it had to function as closely to the Original OEM foglight design as possible... I wanted it to be very difficult for anyone to be able to tell that they are not OEM installed.. right now the only way to tell is my toggle switch in the center console near the shifter and if they pull the glove box out and see the Fog Control Relay Module I installed... other than that, it looks OEM factory. My splices are not visible without disassembling the harness.. When looking under the hood, there is no added wiring at all even at the battery. and under the bumper, the only difference between my fog harness and fords is the lack of parking sensor connectors, and no part number tag.. (i think mine is about 3 inches longer than the factory one though).

@Meathead.. The black bezels from the titanium model are available but I have no clue what the part numbers are... My bezels were Aftermarket chrome pieces that i had painted prior to putting them in.. since it was the cheapest option..
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Old 10-16-2012, 07:14 AM   #58
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@Meathead - DEPO and several other companies also sell the replacement Ti Bezels - might be less expensive than the dealer options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brianm View Post
Y Well I'm not here to argue a point, the reason for my inital response was to offer suggestions that were safer for the car and eayser to install.
Fair enough - you do have a simpler to install (or at least visualize) option. I think, Chaddz3's solution is more elegant and more functional, but also more complicated - good thing is the end user can pick out what they want.

Quote:
second there's no splicing when I attach the possitive feed to the battery cable with a waterproof ring terminal
No splicing there, but you are tying into the factory system at that point. Either that or Chaddz3's solution COULD present warranty issues - although neither should if the dealer interprets the warranty correctly.

Quote:
And splicing involves cutting and soldering.
Ideally, or crimp caps. You probably will have to connect together different wires (splicing) with your standalone system - you will just be splicing to added wires instead of splicing into the factory harness. (I'm not trying to be a jerk, it just comes naturally to me.)

Quote:
If the wire is missing from the fuse box.that tells me that its a different wire harness.
You are thinking about it the wrong way. The OUTPUT wires from the BCM to the rear of the bumper are present on all cars. The INPUT terminals on the BCM and the IC relays in the BCM aren't present on the "S" models.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:09 PM   #59
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@Tiger.. Actually there is a better splicing method than cut and solder... At work when we build wiring harnesses that require splices, we use a sonic welder to weld the copper strands directly to each other.. (not exactly sure how it works) but it produces a solid splice thats almost impossible to pull apart and has no resistance.. we then use meltable wall heat shrink sleeving to seal the splice. (the shrink tube has hot glue inside of it that melts and seals the exposed copper as it shrinks down..)

I would have loved to splice my wiring this way, but with the wiring still in the car, it isnt possible to splice this way.
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Old 10-17-2012, 06:10 AM   #60
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That's a great idea as long as you are sure you're never going to have to take the splice apart (although you could always could out the splice and add in a jumper wire then).

Great info, though!!!!
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