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Old 10-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #11
Kabigon
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What are the "extra" red points of data (sitting on Y min).

For example:

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Old 10-08-2012, 02:59 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
What are the "extra" red points of data (sitting on Y min).
A lossy Bluetooth connection leaves it empty sometimes.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:00 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by raptor1956 View Post
This is very good work and information -- I think everyone should have an OBDII dongle and software to log the data. Torque is a great peice of software for Android devices and if the dongle outputs in blutooth or wifi most any Androi phone or tablet should read/log with no problems.

When in select shift manual the ratio off engine rpm to car speed should be constant in a given gear unless there is slippage. There can be slippage with slippery roads, of course, but if the roads and conditions are good the only explanation for slippage is the clutches are slipping. And no, that is NOT how they supposed to work except during the take-off from a stop. If you're cruising along at, say, 55mph in 6th the rpm should be about 2060 give or take a bit so if it's sitting at, say 2060 rpm and then you hit a hill that puts more load on the car and the rpm increases even though the cars speed stays the same or decreases there can be but one explanation -- clutch slippage!


Really folks, if you are having this DCT problem it would be a very good idea to either buy an OBDII dongle or borrow one so that you can record data and show them. If that doesn't work perhaps you could contact a lawyer and I can pretty much guarantee that if the dealership receives a certified letter on a lawyers letterhead that references this data the dealer will not easily ignore that!


Brian
So your post confuses me. When cruising at let's say 55mph and 2,000 rpm And you start going up even the slightest incline or hill your rpms will go up. You are saying because of clutch slippage, but isn't it technically going to have to raise the rpms to stay at 55 mph because the car will need more torque to overcome the incline at the same speed?

its like walking up hill. You need more effort (rpm per say) to keep climbing the hill at the same speed.

I'm just confused as to why this is clutch slippage.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:03 PM   #14
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If the engine needs more RPM it changes gears, that's the whole point. Since the car has no torque converter, slipping is metal on metal grinding.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox-y-GenIII View Post
So your post confuses me. When cruising at let's say 55mph and 2,000 rpm And you start going up even the slightest incline or hill your rpms will go up. You are saying because of clutch slippage, but isn't it technically going to have to raise the rpms to stay at 55 mph because the car will need more torque to overcome the incline at the same speed?

its like walking up hill. You need more effort (rpm per say) to keep climbing the hill at the same speed.

I'm just confused as to why this is clutch slippage.

Its basic physics, but Raptor1956 is correct. You will notice as you climb a slight hill at highway speed and do not change your throttle input (no cruise turned on), that your speed will slowly drop, but, you'll notice your rpms will drop at the same rate.... it has to. In order to keep the same speed going uphill and the same rpms is to input more throttle (give it more fuel). If your rpms start to climb (without downshifting), but your speed isn't climbing at the same rate, well, you guessed it, your clutch is slipping.
Years ago, I used to do a very simple test in my manual transmission cars to test the "health" of the clutch. Find a steep grade on a quiet back road, and from a stand still, put the car in third gear and start accelerating.... the clutch shouldn't slip at all (if healthy), the speed and rpms would climb VERY slowly....., if the rpms went up without a significant change in speed, well, you know what was slipping.. LOL.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:20 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox-y-GenIII View Post
You are saying because of clutch slippage, but isn't it technically going to have to raise the rpms to stay at 55 mph because the car will need more torque to overcome the incline at the same speed?

its like walking up hill. You need more effort (rpm per say) to keep climbing the hill at the same speed.
Don't confuse RPMs with power (though, they are related.) You will need more gas and oxygen to climb this hill (which makes power) but you can create the same amount of power at different RPMs feathering it in 4th might make the same amount of power as moderate pressure in 2nd gear, etc. because that’s tied to torque and speed.

You don’t need to pedal your bike up the hill any faster to keep the same speed (bikes make more sense in this example); you’re just pushing yourself harder to keep the same rotational velocity. It’s easier to just downshift.

But what’s going on for the OP (and my own car) is that we’re at a relatively reasonable RPM range (1,200-1,500) for a slight incline and the clutch starts slipping so the RPMs go up but the speed of the car is going down. This results in some fun noises that shouldn’t happen. If we are truly bogging the engine down, the clutches shouldn’t slip, the car should just downshift – especially because this is an “automatic” transmission and Joe Scmhoe across the street doesn’t realize that he’s going to have to punch it and force it to downshift… nor should he have to do that. Because if there’s a car in front of him and he doesn’t have selectshift, he can’t easily force a downshift and is stuck with the clutch slipping.

I guess what I’m trying to say is: It shouldn’t happen.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:59 PM   #17
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Sorry the quality is so crappy...

I'll probably have some follow-up videos later - possibly from the outside of the car if I can find a secluded area? But essentially, depending on the situation my clutch will slip anywhere from 1/2 to over 5 seconds when going uphill.

I also apologize that I didn't feel like editing these videos to make them shorter.

(Not sure how loud this is, so check your volume before playing them)
Here is chatter into second and sustained chatter in 4th gear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ4DA...ature=youtu.be

More chatter in second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSJ2y...ature=youtu.be

EDIT: And sorry the noise of the camera and tires are pretty much the same pitch as the slipping clutches. I wish you could could just test drive my car in-person.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PratoN View Post
I'll probably have some follow-up videos later - possibly from the outside of the car if I can find a secluded area? But essentially, depending on the situation my clutch will slip anywhere from 1/2 to over 5 seconds when going uphill.

I also apologize that I didn't feel like editing these videos to make them shorter.

(Not sure how loud this is, so check your volume before playing them)
Here is chatter into second and sustained chatter in 4th gear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ4DA...ature=youtu.be

More chatter in second:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSJ2y...ature=youtu.be

EDIT: And sorry the noise of the camera and tires are pretty much the same pitch as the slipping clutches. I wish you could could just test drive my car in-person.
Yes - I recognize the noise in the 2nd video. I think by now most of us are familiar with it to some degree Ford says it's just a noise and not a problem - what's the truth? When will these trnasmissions start to break down and how much will they cost to fix (There's 1000s of posts here about this issie but none I've seen that can adress these 2 key. questions).
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:11 AM   #19
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Heads up to a document that gives good information about the transmission. See link and go to page 229...


http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi.../obdsm1202.pdf



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Old 10-15-2012, 11:47 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by raptor1956 View Post
Heads up to a document that gives good information about the transmission. See link and go to page 229...


http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdi.../obdsm1202.pdf



Brian
Not sure what the link was for? Most of the people here know how a dual-clutch system operates. The question isn't in the mechanics, but rather the operation.

There's an issue with the operation of this clutch, not necessarily the hardware. Most likely this is a software defect.
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