Transmission/Clutch Slipping (OBD2 Plots) - Focus Fanatics
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Focus Fanatics > Ford Focus Third Generation > MK3 TSB, Recall & Problems Archive

MK3 TSB, Recall & Problems Archive The place to chat about TSB and Known Issues for the 2012 Focus.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2012, 11:24 PM   #1
paul21
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Fan#: 87707
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
What I Drive: 2012 SEL Hatchback

Posts: 180
FF Reputation: 0 paul21 Newbie
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Transmission/Clutch Slipping (OBD2 Plots)

So I hooked up my OBD2 and logged some data earlier today. The blue is speed and the red is Speed/RPM ratio. Ideally it should stair step with each gear unless there is slipping going on (which I highly suspect). I've got a 5/11/11 build, with a lot of issues.



This is 50mph~ using select shift to downshift through some gears. No throttle appled, everything looks normal.


Here is another deceleration, looks good.


Here is cruising/coasting in 6th gear.


This is cruising with some acceleration, still in 6th gear. The ratio is all over the place. I can feel the engine rev up then come back into place whenever I apply throttle.


This is how my car performs on a cold start. The clutch slips all over the place in the parking lot. It doesn't really lock into a gear until 15mph+


Here I'm cruising then I accelerate and the car downshifts. The circled part is where the clutch is slipping during acceleration.


Another acceleration with slip. The circle plateau starts low then rolls up, so it's slipping there.


This is a 50-55mph acceleration with a downshift. The car usually hesitates a little bit (the 3 dots) then drops into gear and surges a little bit.


Does anyone else have any data from their cars to compare?


paul21 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-08-2012, 12:01 AM   #2
Doctor Drew
Focus Enthusiast
 
Doctor Drew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Fan#: 82372
Location: Dearborn Heights, MI
What I Drive: 2012 SEL 5dr PowerShudder

Posts: 99
FF Reputation: 1 Doctor Drew Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I have no hard data, other than that when my car is in sixth gear (cruise on or off), I can see the tachometer bouncing up and down by less than 100rpm.

I spend a lot of time in my work parking lot and at low speeds too, and it really seems to smooth out at 15mph, below that it's real jerky. I just attributed it to how few miles I have on the car (less than 1000).
Doctor Drew is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 02:37 AM   #3
Ox-y-GenIII
Focus Addict
 
Ox-y-GenIII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Fan#: 90008
Location: Saint Francis, MN
What I Drive: 2012 Oxford White SEL Hatch

Posts: 1,080
FF Reputation: 4 Ox-y-GenIII Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
do you have the same kind of logs from other dct cars? I have a feeling its just the way this transmission works. VW/Audi dcts are a whole different system. Im in for comparisons with any other dcts.
__________________
Ox-y-GenIII

2012 Oxford White Focus Hatchback
Dyno #'s 164.35 HP 147.12 TQ
Ox-y-GenIII is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 06:45 AM   #4
smizak
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Fan#: 92058
Location: Buffalo, NY
What I Drive: 2012 Black SEL

Posts: 218
FF Reputation: 2 smizak Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Nice work. I am so taking this to the dealer with me if they tell me again that they can't find anything physically wrong, yet still acknowledge the grinding and slippage.
smizak is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 07:40 AM   #5
dan50
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Fan#: 91789
Location: Too much info, IL
What I Drive: 2012 SEL White Platinum 5 Dr 302A

Posts: 1,152
FF Reputation: 11 dan50 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I suspect mine is doing the same thing. Ford's DCT literature talks about "microslip" technology where some clutch slippage is allowed or induced to make the experience smoother. So the debate could be whether this degree of slippage is a feature or a bug.

Dealers can hook a recording device to the OBD port. Much like a heart monitor, if an irregularity is noted during a test drive pushing a button will preserve that data. This is the next step for my car; armed with your data maybe you could suggest the same to your dealer.
dan50 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 09:50 AM   #6
raptor1956
Focus Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Fan#: 97725
Location: Taylorsville, UT
What I Drive: 2012, Sonic Blue, Focus Titanium

Posts: 1,176
FF Reputation: 1 raptor1956 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
This is very good work and information -- I think everyone should have an OBDII dongle and software to log the data. Torque is a great peice of software for Android devices and if the dongle outputs in blutooth or wifi most any Androi phone or tablet should read/log with no problems.

When in select shift manual the ratio off engine rpm to car speed should be constant in a given gear unless there is slippage. There can be slippage with slippery roads, of course, but if the roads and conditions are good the only explanation for slippage is the clutches are slipping. And no, that is NOT how they supposed to work except during the take-off from a stop. If you're cruising along at, say, 55mph in 6th the rpm should be about 2060 give or take a bit so if it's sitting at, say 2060 rpm and then you hit a hill that puts more load on the car and the rpm increases even though the cars speed stays the same or decreases there can be but one explanation -- clutch slippage!

Really folks, if you are having this DCT problem it would be a very good idea to either buy an OBDII dongle or borrow one so that you can record data and show them. If that doesn't work perhaps you could contact a lawyer and I can pretty much guarantee that if the dealership receives a certified letter on a lawyers letterhead that references this data the dealer will not easily ignore that!


Brian
__________________
2012 FF Ti HB Sonic Blue, Built 5/7/12, 401A + Parking Technology Package and MFT w/NAV 3.0.2 -> 3.2.2 -> 3.5.1 -> 3.6.2
raptor1956 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 09:53 AM   #7
PratoN
Focus Fanatic
 
PratoN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Fan#: 88058
Location: Milwaukee, WI
What I Drive: 2012 Kona Blue Ti Hatchback, DCT

Posts: 3,718
FF Reputation: 10 PratoN Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Awesome post, Paul. Thanks for the info. Based on your issues and build date, I'm sure you'll need the 11-12-13 TSB applied at some point. I'm going in today at 1pm to get it checked out. Wish me luck!
__________________
2012 FF Ti HB Kona Blue, Built 5/24/2011, 401A + Ti Handling Package, Parking Technology Package, Winter Package, Moonroof, and MFT w/NAV at v3.6 91k miles and counting...
PratoN is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 09:56 AM   #8
FordService
Official Ford Rep
 
FordService's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Fan#: 79824
Location: Dearborn, MI
What I Drive: Ford Focus

Posts: 4,096
FF Reputation: 18 FordService Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul21 View Post
So I hooked up my OBD2 and logged some data earlier today. The blue is speed and the red is Speed/RPM ratio. Ideally it should stair step with each gear unless there is slipping going on (which I highly suspect). I've got a 5/11/11 build, with a lot of issues...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Drew View Post
...I spend a lot of time in my work parking lot and at low speeds too, and it really seems to smooth out at 15mph, below that it's real jerky. I just attributed it to how few miles I have on the car (less than 1000).
Quote:
Originally Posted by smizak View Post
Nice work. I am so taking this to the dealer with me if they tell me again that they can't find anything physically wrong, yet still acknowledge the grinding and slippage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
I suspect mine is doing the same thing. Ford's DCT literature talks about "microslip" technology where some clutch slippage is allowed or induced to make the experience smoother. So the debate could be whether this degree of slippage is a feature or a bug.

Dealers can hook a recording device to the OBD port. Much like a heart monitor, if an irregularity is noted during a test drive pushing a button will preserve that data. This is the next step for my car; armed with your data maybe you could suggest the same to your dealer.
Hi everyone,

Remember that I'm here to help; if your vehicle is exhibiting transmission/clutch slipping, I want to see how I can help. Please send me a PM with some background on what you've been experiencing, your VIN, dealer, mileage, and a good daytime contact number. I'll start researching.

Thanks!
Crystal
__________________
FORD SERVICE

p: 800.392.FORD
t: @FordService @FordFocus @Ford
f: facebook.com/FordFocus facebook.com/Ford
FordService is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 10:32 AM   #9
feta_mgp
Focus Fanatic
 
feta_mgp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Fan#: 88210
Location: Vero Beach, FL
What I Drive: 2012 SGM Focus SEL

Posts: 2,611
FF Reputation: 7 feta_mgp Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
OP what OBD2 tool are you using to get this information? I'd like to try it out as well. Also, when I'm using cruise control, I have small "hiccups" where the tach will bounce less than 100rpms up, the car will feel for a split second that it has lost power, and then settle back in. My dealership told me this is normal, however it's only been present AFTER 12b37. I have talked to Ford Customer Service about this and it was escalated to my dealership, however, the manager at the dealership is the one who told me it was normal. I have since stopped using cruise control because it bothers me.
__________________
2012 SGM SEL Sedan Job 1 BD 6/2011
FSWERKS Cool-Flo w/ ITG Filter | FSWERKS Stealth Exhaust | 17x7.5 Axis Sport XMX Graphite wheels | Eibach Sportlines on Ti Handling Pkg bits
Sonic Crew #28
feta_mgp is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2012, 01:55 PM   #10
paul21
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Fan#: 87707
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
What I Drive: 2012 SEL Hatchback

Posts: 180
FF Reputation: 0 paul21 Newbie
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by feta_mgp View Post
OP what OBD2 tool are you using to get this information? I'd like to try it out as well.
I'm using a bluetooth ELM327 tool (less than $20 , Mini ELM327 is ~$15) to read the data and wOBD to log it to a file ( http://www.obd2crazy.com/software.html ).

You just pair the device with your laptop (USB bluetooth adapters are cheap as well) using the password "0000" or "1234" or "9999". It will assign it a COM port (COM6, etc) which you can check by clicking properties once it's paired. Open wOBD and set the com port on the bottom.

With wOBD there's a Data Acquisition section. Go to the Polling Designer and keep Engine RPM and Vehicle Speed, delete the rest. Set the poll frequency to 1 (approx 3 times a second). Click save then go to the polling screen.

Set the max poll loops to 99999 and click save then reset. You should be able to click start polling and collect data. If the values don't populate within ~10 seconds, click stop, reset, and wait 30 seconds and try again. Once the RPM is reading >800 then you can start driving.

After you've done your driving, click export and it will make a .log file. Open that file with a text editor and you can copy the columns of data into excel or something else (openoffice, google docs, windows live office). I delete the time column and add in a new one called "index" that just increases from 1 to the end of the data set since the time doesn't have sub-second accuracy. I add another column that's speed/RPM for the ratio and plot both on an XY scatter by selecting index, speed, and the ratio column. Click the 2nd data set (red boxes) and right click, format properties or similar then change its axis to secondary.

At that point I just make the graph really wide by zooming out so it's not so compressed in the X-axis and take screenshots of the interesting parts.
paul21 is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 PM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information : Site Map

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.