Think I figured out the shuddering when starting from a stop...can't believe it

[poole34]

Originally Posted by pozi240

No, I didn't see any oil, BUT, I have a maintenance pkg, so, the dealer does it all..., I will say my transimission did have some oil "oozing" down the outside (the dealer showed it to me today) and it had been there for some time.....

I just did an oil change two days ago and inspected everything but didn't see any type of leakage. I have not used any dealers in my area so I want to be prepared when I take it in. I wish I could find a real copy of the TSB.

[PratoN]

Originally Posted by pozi240

No, I didn't see any oil, BUT, I have a maintenance pkg, so, the dealer does it all..., I will say my transimission did have some oil "oozing" down the outside (the dealer showed it to me today) and it had been there for some time.....

If it's actually oil, that's probably bad... If it's slick, it's transmission fluid and you'll need to get TSB 11-12-13 applied. If it's viscous and sticky/honey colored, it's rust inhibitor applied during manufacturing and that's nothing to be alarmed about.

[noahsfocus]

Originally Posted by pozi240

You definately should get your dealer to check out your DCT as per TSB 11-12-13, have a read of my findings today from my dealer:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/s...=1#post4387008

Great write up ...this means there is hope for a fix. So just because no leak can be seen from the outside of the bellhousing doesn't mean an internal leak hasn't contaminated the clutches causing damage and all the shuddering issues. So we should have our clutch packs pulled and inspected and not just the outer bellhousing inspected. Wonder how hard it will be to convince the service dept to do this? Your post helps and I'm sure will be used by many to get this looked at.

[PratoN]

Originally Posted by noahsfocus

Great write up ...this means there is hope for a fix. So just because no leak can be seen from the outside of the bellhousing doesn't mean an internal leak hasn't contaminated the clutches causing damage and all the shuddering issues. So we should have our clutch packs pulled and inspected and not just the outer bellhousing inspected. Wonder how hard it will be to convince the service dept to do this? Your post helps and I'm sure will be used by many to get this looked at.

This.

I have the clutch chattering but no leaking on the outside (I checked myself). Because there's no leak, the service department never checked my clutches. I'm taking it in on Monday for a test drive, this time with their transmission technician now that I can consistently duplicate the chattering.

[pozi240]

Originally Posted by PratoN

If it's actually oil, that's probably bad... If it's red and slick, it's transmission fluid and you'll need to get TSB 11-12-13 applied. If it's viscous and sticky/honey colored, it's rust inhibitor applied during manufacturing and that's nothing to be alarmed about.

Our DCT's don't use "red" transmission fluid, its brown, just like a "normal" manual transmission, just a heavier weight motor oil really. They were able to inspect my bell housing (and clutches) without too much effort (they had my car back to me in a couple of hours while I wait for the new parts to come in), so, I don't think its a big job to perform the check. I can't see why I dealer wouldn't do the inspection, the TSB states to perform the check if the customer complains about "shuddering" or rough performance and has an early build date (not sure on how early the date is, since I don't have an actual copy of TSB 11-12-13). To be honest, the amount of oil on the outside of the transmission was minimal really, and I wouldn't have thought anything of it really, but, the dealer told me there was quite a bit of oil spray inside the clutch housing. (Makes sense, since the clutch is always spinning when engaged)

[cobie56]

Originally Posted by raptor1956

Your linked post is very informative and makes sense. I have a later build date (5/7/12) and do not have any DCT problems and turning off TCS did nothing for me, but those that have an earlier build date are much more likely to have bad seals and if the oil gets on the clutch pack all bets are off as far as drive-ability. TCS may induce or worsen the shudder problem on a car with contaminated clutch packs by adding another variable in the control loop that isn't "tuned" to handle the unexpected torque/speed response between the input and output of the transmission.

What I'd like to see is a few more of you with the problem bring your car in to have the seals and clutch packs checked and if a significant percentage of you with the shudder issue wind up having contaminated clutch packs that would put to bed the issue and put the onus on Ford to make good on this to ALL there customers with the problem.

It may well be the case that just about all these issues can be traced to bad seals and contaminated clutch packs.


Brian

I have a 6 May 11 build date and all the required DCT updates and everything is smooth as silk but then it always was since i got the car... im just lucky, i guess and i feel for those of u w/ all these problems that should have been addressed before the car went on the market.

[dan50]

Originally Posted by hotleadsingerguy

Actually that's not how most traction control systems work. The reason is simple: if your car is on a solid patch of ice, all drivetrain-engaged wheels would spin at close to the same rate. If it were checking purely for the differential between the drive-wheels it wouldn't see much of a difference and thus wouldn't engage the TCS. Most traction control systems operate with a variety of factors.

Another possibility, however unlikely, is that when engaging the clutch from a stop it puts more power to one wheel than the other. The TCS would engage to fix the differential. Like I said, I highly doubt an issue like that would exist on a large scale without Ford taking notice or at least admitting the issue.



As for the rest, I turned TCS back on and it shuddered at the next stop. Turned it off and the shudder is once again gone (at least reasonably so, as I've said). With the TCS off it performs like every other dry dual-clutch transmission I've driven in the past...which means I would have to assume *THAT* is how the car should drive. Very little slippage, but just enough to maximize engine efficiency at takeoff. While driving I experience none of the issues I normally do (taking turns at slow speeds shuddered the engine like crazy and I've had no such issue with TCS disabled).

And of course this is all speculative assumption, beyond the physical change in operation. Why it does it? I couldn't possibly say for sure. I can give my opinion, which is probably not too far from the truth, but I can't say for sure it's the 100% truth as to what is happening. That's for Ford to determine. Until then, I'll keep presenting my evidence and let them keep shooting themselves in the foot by lying to me

You're probably right, but as the Focus differential doesn't lock, the wheels wouldn't spin at the same rate on ice, would they?

I hope this is a good clue for Ford (that they need help from us is another story altogether) but turning the TCS off didn't change my car's behavior a bit. Too bad.

[TboneZX3]

Originally Posted by dan50

You're probably right, but as the Focus differential doesn't lock, the wheels wouldn't spin at the same rate on ice, would they?

Unlike other "open" (non-locking) differentials, in the MkIII Focus they would both spin, because of the Torque Vectoring system. If it were solely an open differential without TV, you'd be correct--only the wheel with the least amount of grip would spin.

[hotleadsingerguy]

Originally Posted by TboneZX3

Unlike other "open" (non-locking) differentials, in the MkIII Focus they would both spin, because of the Torque Vectoring system. If it were solely an open differential without TV, you'd be correct--only the wheel with the least amount of grip would spin.

^^This. The Torque Vectoring system would ensure that both wheels are spinning at the same rate in the case of sitting on ice. Because of this, if the TCS only gauged itself on difference in wheel movement it would never engage. This is one of the big reasons TCS systems have stayed away from that type of measurement. It's still part of the calculation, but only a small part.

[MyThIc3LiTe]

Our brilliant in corners torque vectoring system is what causes this, so our front differential isn't like most FWD cars.

I can attest to better smoothness when TCS is off and more smoothness in general when I'm changing on my own