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Old 10-04-2012, 02:10 PM   #31
revhigh
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so dont call people out when you do not know.....B-lou

You're missing the point .... I didn't say you couldn't PAY $30K for it ... I said it was a $20K car (or considerably less) in the real marketplace (no matter the options) .... which is why the resale values are what they are. Mine was $16,500 (MSRP just under $21K) ... about $17,300 out the door ... and I have the exact same car as a $30K car ... without the electronic doo dads that don't seem to work very well anyway. No Sync ... no MFT .... no DCT .... That's exactly why the values are what they are on the used market. Because if you put a lightly used loaded economy car of almost ANY brand on the lot against a less loaded (or even stripped) brand NEW car .... for most buyers there is no choice in that decision ... it will usually be the NEW car that they choose.

Moral of the story .... don't buy loaded economy cars if you have any intention of getting rid of them in the first 4 years or so .... most will be way upside down if you have a loan .... or will lose vast amounts of the value if you paid cash. OR ... buy lightly used loaded cars a year or so old. It's the only way you won't get hammered on the value.

Honestly ... at $30K or more .... there are a helluva lot of better cars on the market than the Ford Focus. As good as it is ... it is what it is .... an economy car, and most people won't pay anywhere near $30K for an economy car. If you did .... well ... we now see what happens to your '$30K' car.

I agree that it has to be fixed whether it was $16.5K or $30K, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the car wasn't so riddled with issues that people are so frustrated with them that they're trying to get rid of them when they're only a year or so old.

I don't have any of the high-tech issues ... because I don't have any of the high-tech stuff ... but I do have the front suspension issue ... and it's starting to tick me off to the point that I'm just not crazy about the car as much anymore ... and I would NEVER recommend a Focus OR a Ford to anybody at this point. Maybe that will change if my suspension ever gets fixed.

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Old 10-04-2012, 02:42 PM   #32
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Well, as I posted in this thread, and the other TCS/DCT thread started by hotleadsingerguy here: http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=298984, I had erratic shift behaviour happen and was told there was "no codes", and just reflashed the TCU (with 12B37) and told it's fine now. Then, I started having the "shuddering" at take off that I never had before (had the car over one year with 40k km's on it now), so, I tried the TCS trick (disabling), and it helped a LOT. So, my car went in this morning for an oil change, and I mentioned the shuddering and how disabling the TCS helped a lot, and they wrote that down in my work order for the tech, I also mentioned the TSB 11-12-13 about the transmission seals in the clutch housing, and they said they would check it out.
Well, I just got the car back, and they (my dealer) actually took me seriously this time, and low and behold, my clutch packs are "heavily" contaminated (their words, not mine, LOL) with transmission oil from the bad seals. One of the techs (who I was told was their "DCT guy"), said that a LOT of the earlier build Focus (mine was a May 2011 build) are driving around out there with bad seals and consequently, bad clutches and don't even know it yet.... I had to laugh when I heard that. He surmised that the reason my car shifted smoother with TCS disabled, was because my clutches were wet with oil and "chattering", causing the TCS system to engage to try and "smooth" it out, which of course, it can't.... causing the issues I was seeing. By disabling the TCS, the contaminated clutches could continue to "slip" and engage on thier own, making the vibration go away. I asked him how long did he think I could drive with damaged clutches that way, and he said it depended on how "harshly" I drove the car, but, most likely not too long, most likely within the warranty period anyway.... yeah right!
Another interesting note from my dealer, they actually had a replacement clutch pack in stock (no seals though), but, Ford Canada has advised them NOT to use that "version" of the clutches anymore, apparently there is a "new" design (same as the 2013's I'm told) that they have to order to repair mine with. Not only that, the service writer said they just changed the part number for the DCT transmission oil as well.......... hmmmmm.... I think Ford knows very well that a lot of early build DCT's out there are prone to issues and has quietly changed out a few parts....
The take away (especially those that find the shudder goes away when disabling the TCS as per the other thread), you should get your dealer to check your transmission seals as per TSB 11-12-13 to make sure you don't have a leak, slowly ruining your clutches... if your car is an early build, there is a good chance it's your clutches..
That is a lot of good information, thanks.

How long ago did you have the 12B37 update?
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:25 PM   #33
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Thx will ask them to check that

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Old 10-04-2012, 05:37 PM   #34
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You're missing the point .... I didn't say you couldn't PAY $30K for it ... I said it was a $20K car (or considerably less) in the real marketplace (no matter the options) .... which is why the resale values are what they are. Mine was $16,500 (MSRP just under $21K) ... about $17,300 out the door ... and I have the exact same car as a $30K car ... without the electronic doo dads that don't seem to work very well anyway. No Sync ... no MFT .... no DCT .... That's exactly why the values are what they are on the used market. Because if you put a lightly used loaded economy car of almost ANY brand on the lot against a less loaded (or even stripped) brand NEW car .... for most buyers there is no choice in that decision ... it will usually be the NEW car that they choose.

Moral of the story .... don't buy loaded economy cars if you have any intention of getting rid of them in the first 4 years or so .... most will be way upside down if you have a loan .... or will lose vast amounts of the value if you paid cash. OR ... buy lightly used loaded cars a year or so old. It's the only way you won't get hammered on the value.

Honestly ... at $30K or more .... there are a helluva lot of better cars on the market than the Ford Focus. As good as it is ... it is what it is .... an economy car, and most people won't pay anywhere near $30K for an economy car. If you did .... well ... we now see what happens to your '$30K' car.

I agree that it has to be fixed whether it was $16.5K or $30K, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion if the car wasn't so riddled with issues that people are so frustrated with them that they're trying to get rid of them when they're only a year or so old.

I don't have any of the high-tech issues ... because I don't have any of the high-tech stuff ... but I do have the front suspension issue ... and it's starting to tick me off to the point that I'm just not crazy about the car as much anymore ... and I would NEVER recommend a Focus OR a Ford to anybody at this point. Maybe that will change if my suspension ever gets fixed.

REV
Except that you're incorrect. Don't try to justify your point with a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, the M3 is only a $40k car, since it's basically a 328i with more features (if an entirely different suspension is a feature, then an engine would also be considered a feature). In doing so you're building a strawman.

Your car and mine are completely different automobiles. Vastly superior suspension, vastly superior handling capabilities, better looking exterior because of the tires/wheels, heated leather seats, full leather interior, entertainment system that allows more connections and includes more capabilities, full-size spare, full dual-zone climate control, IA key technology with push button start, and more.

Yes, all of those are simply features that were added on to a basic car...but that's exactly what makes my car far better than yours. Just because you bought the absolute base-model car doesn't mean all of the others in the line perform *ANYTHING* like yours.

People get into my car and would never know it were a focus if I didn't say anything. People get in my car and believe that it's worth $30k. A friend of mine has a base-model 2012 and people get into his car and *immediately* know it's a Focus. You can't compare the two.

Oh, and issues aside, there really isn't a better $30k car on the market. The only thing in that range that could be a contender is the Subaru WRX, which is marginally better but reeks of poor quality (close a door and listen for the hollow sound). Nothing else really compares, and every major review site and magazine would agree. You don't honestly think they're all incorrect, do you?
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:49 PM   #35
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That is a lot of good information, thanks.

How long ago did you have the 12B37 update?
About 2 months ago, (4k kms since that time).
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:52 PM   #36
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Except that you're incorrect. Don't try to justify your point with a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, the M3 is only a $40k car, since it's basically a 328i with more features (if an entirely different suspension is a feature, then an engine would also be considered a feature). In doing so you're building a strawman.

Your car and mine are completely different automobiles. Vastly superior suspension, vastly superior handling capabilities, better looking exterior because of the tires/wheels, heated leather seats, full leather interior, entertainment system that allows more connections and includes more capabilities, full-size spare, full dual-zone climate control, IA key technology with push button start, and more.

Yes, all of those are simply features that were added on to a basic car...but that's exactly what makes my car far better than yours. Just because you bought the absolute base-model car doesn't mean all of the others in the line perform *ANYTHING* like yours.

People get into my car and would never know it were a focus if I didn't say anything. People get in my car and believe that it's worth $30k. A friend of mine has a base-model 2012 and people get into his car and *immediately* know it's a Focus. You can't compare the two.

Oh, and issues aside, there really isn't a better $30k car on the market. The only thing in that range that could be a contender is the Subaru WRX, which is marginally better but reeks of poor quality (close a door and listen for the hollow sound). Nothing else really compares, and every major review site and magazine would agree. You don't honestly think they're all incorrect, do you?
My thoughts exactly.... I debadged mine, just because people kept asking me what kind of car it was (and said, "that can't be a Focus.."), and how nice it was inside.. etc, etc. So, I just say its a new model from Ford and let them see how long it takes them to guess (if at all). LOL
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:35 AM   #37
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Except that you're incorrect. Don't try to justify your point with a logical fallacy. By your reasoning, the M3 is only a $40k car, since it's basically a 328i with more features (if an entirely different suspension is a feature, then an engine would also be considered a feature). In doing so you're building a strawman.

Your car and mine are completely different automobiles. Vastly superior suspension, vastly superior handling capabilities, better looking exterior because of the tires/wheels, heated leather seats, full leather interior, entertainment system that allows more connections and includes more capabilities, full-size spare, full dual-zone climate control, IA key technology with push button start, and more.

Yes, all of those are simply features that were added on to a basic car...but that's exactly what makes my car far better than yours. Just because you bought the absolute base-model car doesn't mean all of the others in the line perform *ANYTHING* like yours.

People get into my car and would never know it were a focus if I didn't say anything. People get in my car and believe that it's worth $30k. A friend of mine has a base-model 2012 and people get into his car and *immediately* know it's a Focus. You can't compare the two.

Oh, and issues aside, there really isn't a better $30k car on the market. The only thing in that range that could be a contender is the Subaru WRX, which is marginally better but reeks of poor quality (close a door and listen for the hollow sound). Nothing else really compares, and every major review site and magazine would agree. You don't honestly think they're all incorrect, do you?
I have the SE hatch with sport package and mag wheels and sunroof too. So my model isn't the absolute base.

If you want to see how much your '$30k' car is worth ... try to sell it or trade it in. Our cars are the same car no matter how much you try to deny it.

Electronic options and leather don't equate to $13.5k.

If you think there's no better car for 30k ... clearly you haven't shopped around.

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:15 AM   #38
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If you think there's no better car for 30k ... clearly you haven't shopped around.
I don't know why we're arguing about the price of this car for 2 pages. Yes, his $25k+ car has $18k resale value. That doesn't change the price he paid. The fact is he bought a new car that shifts into neutral while in-motion. If this were to happen while trying to pass someone or making a left-hand turn, someone could get hurt. It doesn't matter if it's a Focus or a BMW or a Geo Metro.

It shouldn't happen.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:55 AM   #39
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I don't know why we're arguing about the price of this car for 2 pages. Yes, his $25k+ car has $18k resale value. That doesn't change the price he paid. The fact is he bought a new car that shifts into neutral while in-motion. If this were to happen while trying to pass someone or making a left-hand turn, someone could get hurt. It doesn't matter if it's a Focus or a BMW or a Geo Metro.

It shouldn't happen.
Thank you....and yes I do think this issue was serious, and still is. As of now, I was told by my dealer and Ford Customer Service to "monitor the vehicle". So I guess that makes me the crash test dummy....

How can a car company not take something like this serious enough and say..you know what, lets get this guy in another car and use this one to figure out what the hell happened.
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:56 PM   #40
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I don't know why we're arguing about the price of this car for 2 pages. Yes, his $25k+ car has $18k resale value. That doesn't change the price he paid. The fact is he bought a new car that shifts into neutral while in-motion. If this were to happen while trying to pass someone or making a left-hand turn, someone could get hurt. It doesn't matter if it's a Focus or a BMW or a Geo Metro.

It shouldn't happen.
Agree 100% that it shouldn't happen and should be resolved by Ford.

No matter the price .....

It seems that finally almost everyone here is in agreement that these transmissions have serious problems .... and it's not just an isolated few

Its a LOT of them ... and a lot of different problems. And it's been shown that previously 'good' ones can quickly go bad.

Ford really needs to get on top of this ... pronto.

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