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Old 09-20-2012, 05:03 PM   #151
revhigh
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I'll tell ya ... regarding the DCT ... I was in a friend's BMW 650I over the weekend, and it had the DCT or whatever BMW calls theirs. I swear ... that thing drove EXACTLY like it was a manual trans ... except without the clutch. If you closed your eyes you would have sworn it was a manual. Even when downshifting it revved the engine slightly to RPM match the lower gear. When starting out ... it sounded exactly like you were driving with a clutch. That is one wicked car. Super fast, 380 horsepower, and man that thing could fly. When he go on it, it was just like powershifting a manual trans ... got a chirp in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th even with traction control.

If Ford is trying to duplicate that kind of shifting performance with their DCT .... they missed the boat by a mile. Not sure if it's the same technology or kind of transmission, but I'll say one thing ... if Ford's DCT worked like that BMW's ... I'd be all over it.

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Old 09-20-2012, 05:09 PM   #152
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I'll tell ya ... regarding the DCT ... I was in a friend's BMW 650I over the weekend, and it had the DCT or whatever BMW calls theirs. I swear ... that thing drove EXACTLY like it was a manual trans ... except without the clutch. If you closed your eyes you would have sworn it was a manual. Even when downshifting it revved the engine slightly to RPM match the lower gear. When starting out ... it sounded exactly like you were driving with a clutch. That is one wicked car. Super fast, 380 horsepower, and man that thing could fly. When he go on it, it was just like powershifting a manual trans ... got a chirp in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th even with traction control.

If Ford is trying to duplicate that kind of shifting performance with their DCT .... they missed the boat by a mile. Not sure if it's the same technology or kind of transmission, but I'll say one thing ... if Ford's DCT worked like that BMW's ... I'd be all over it.

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The bmw and ford DCT are both made by getrag, so they should not be that different.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:16 PM   #153
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The bmw and ford DCT are both made by getrag, so they should not be that different.
The other thing is that a 650i has a V8 and gobs of torque to work with AND BMW actually designates different transmission behaviours based on the kind of mode you are in.

We only have one gearbox mode. Sport mode doesn't change jack all in operating parameters. It doesn't firm up the shifts or decrease the amount of time it takes.

The only reason BMWs DCT would feel different is because of the amount of power going through it and the ferocity of the shifting.

We have a 160hp Focus. Even a 200hp GTI with the DSG feels roughly the same.

Hell, Audis S Tronic is perhaps a bit better.

A DCT is a DCT no matter how you want to slice it, the major factors are how much power that transmission gets to play with and what the programming or programming modes that the tranny is blessed with.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:21 PM   #154
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The bmw and ford DCT are both made by getrag, so they should not be that different.
If this is an accruate listing from the Getrag page it is likely that due to the higher engine power/ torque figures they would be using a wet clutch system more in line with the wet-clutch powershift DCT used behind the 2.0 L EcoBoost i4 in the Mondeo, or the duratorq diesels in European Foci, Mondeos and the like. As compared to our dry dual clutch system. The gearbox itself may technically be very similar but the clutch actuation is not as the higher torque capacities require wet clutches to function at the expense of reduced efficiency.

http://www.getrag.com/en/252
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:25 PM   #155
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A DCT is a DCT no matter how you want to slice it, the major factors are how much power that transmission gets to play with and what the programming or programming modes that the tranny is blessed with.
I drove a Focus with the DCT for 2 weekends, and I NEVER saw it act remotely like the BMW transmission. It constantly hunted for gears, ground every single shift from 1st to 2nd, ground and shuddered when it started out, and when you needed it to downshif it would either refuse and lug, or it would downshift two gears sloppily and cause the engine to race. This was 2 different cars as well ... one hatchback and one sedan. They were the worst transmissions I've ever experienced in 40 years of driving. On the highway at a constant speed they were wonderful.

If they're the same tranny ... then Ford better steal BMW's programming, because one was great and effective and one sucked so much that I bought a manual just so I didn't have to get it.


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Old 09-20-2012, 05:26 PM   #156
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If this is an accruate listing from the Getrag page it is likely that due to the higher engine power/ torque figures they would be using a wet clutch system more in line with the wet-clutch powershift DCT used behind the 2.0 L EcoBoost i4 in the Mondeo, or the duratorq diesels in European Foci, Mondeos and the like. As compared to our dry dual clutch system. The gearbox itself may technically be very similar but the clutch actuation is not as the higher torque capacities require wet clutches to function at the expense of reduced efficiency.

http://www.getrag.com/en/252
Thanks, yeah I didn't mean to say that they were the same DCT, as getrag makes more than one, but it isn't a different manufacturer so they should be more similar than other brands.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:25 PM   #157
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The bmw and ford DCT are both made by getrag, so they should not be that different.
Maybe it's that world famous Mexican quality that gives the Focus' DCT it's edge?
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:30 PM   #158
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Maybe it's that world famous Mexican quality that gives the Focus' DCT it's edge?
I don't get the point of such a baseless statement. The same dry dual clutch DCT was used in the Focus in Australia and other places without the level of complaints hurled at it by those who prefer the slush of a torque converter.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:31 PM   #159
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Maybe it's that world famous Mexican quality that gives the Focus' DCT it's edge?
Spicy.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:58 PM   #160
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I don't get the point of such a baseless statement. The same dry dual clutch DCT was used in the Focus in Australia and other places without the level of complaints hurled at it by those who prefer the slush of a torque converter.
So, they are using the Mexican made DCT in the Australian version of the Focus? Interesting if true.
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