2012 Focus is NOT holding value

[revhigh]

Originally Posted by suss6052

The 3 is old and not terribly reliable at least from those who actually owned the car have had to say on their forums.

Far more reliable than the 2012 Focus according to any tracking organization. The 2010, 11, 12 Mazda 3 is rated much better than average, and the 2012 Focus is rated worse than average. Not sure where you get your 'not terribly reliable' data.

It doesn't handle better, but the firmer suspension might give that impression at first glance.

Your opinion only, and it has no totally unresolved issues with it's front suspension that I know of. The 3 for years has been the benchmark in handling for the compact car class.


There is nothing good about a torque converter equipped planetary geared automatic transmission, particularly for fuel efficiency and driving feel.

Again ... your opinion only ... the Skyactiv model gets equal or better fuel economy than the Focus, and doesn't have any widely reported transmission issues ... unlike the Focus' DCT.


It is what people are used to however so they gravitate to what they know.

And what they know they can trust ...


The 3 is riding on the old version of the C1 platform


So ??


the interior is far nastier to look at and use than the Focus.


Again ... your opinion only ... numerous respected auto mags have called the Focus's interior ... particularly it's center stack ... annoyingly busy and virtually unusable while driving.


If one is looking to slush around riding the gas and brake at the same time the torque converter may help you feel right at home.


People have been 'slushing' around quite happily for the last 50 years or so with outstanding reliabilty. Fuel economy is about the same ... and if you drive with your foot on the gas and the brake at the same time ... your driving technique is extremely poor. That is just a preposterous statement.

It's very evident from reading the forum that people are getting more and more disillusioned with the new Focus. I still like mine, but I have to admit ... I've had more problems with this car in 5000 miles than I did with my last 3 Toyotas in 350,000 miles combined. None of my previous Toyotas EVER saw the shop ... my Focus has been in the shope 4 times now in 5000 miles, and it STILL has the front suspension issue. If they resolved that ... I'd be pretty happy with it, but I really don't think they even know what the problem is.


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[HuskerFocus]

Originally Posted by revhigh

It's very evident from reading the forum that people are getting more and more disillusioned with the new Focus. I still like mine, but I have to admit ... I've had more problems with this car in 5000 miles than I did with my last 3 Toyotas in 350,000 miles combined. None of my previous Toyotas EVER saw the shop ... my Focus has been in the shope 4 times now in 5000 miles, and it STILL has the front suspension issue. If they resolved that ... I'd be pretty happy with it, but I really don't think they even know what the problem is.


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I agree with pretty much everything you say (except the center stack ... but that is really opinion based anyways, and I have the MFT stack, which I feel is less busy). I wouldn't go as far as saying I "love" my Focus right now, but I do enjoy it. And the sad part is that I have had more issues with it in the first 8000 miles than the 50,000 I put on a 1999 Civic (my previous car) that I purchased with 85,000 miles already on it.

If/when Ford can get a fix for the struts/suspension (gone in once, probably going again...) and the tail lamps scratching off pain (going in for that soon...), I'd then be completely happy!

And, for those reasons, the Focus' value is dropping quick (or at least appears to be)...

[revhigh]

Originally Posted by mmmoose

I always laugh when people bash the Mazda3 interior. I'm trying to figure out what it is exactly that people hate so much about it. Personally I thought it looked and felt great. Everything important is within close reach of the driver. The seats are nicely bolstered and comfortable. The materials didn't feel cheap to me at all. Maybe I'm just not expecting it to feel like a Jaguar?

The main thing wrong with it to some people is that it's not a Focus interior.

The looks of any interior is very subjective, and to call it 'nasty' time after time in numerous posts (as if that makes it true LOL) is simply not proving anything. I bet if you asked 1000 people what they thought of the 3's interior ... not one would use the term 'nasty'. There's not a thing wrong with the 3's interior, and my Focus interior is just fine too. But I have the 201 package so it's nowhere near as 'busy' as the more upscale models.


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[josephd]

I never look at a car as an investment, I don't live in my car. It is more like negative equity, and just a means of transportation. The bottom line is, no car is worth what we pay for them. And unless you keep your car for 10 plus years, the trade in value will mean nothing, since you keep yourself in that constant cycle of car payments, and giving the Banks a ton of money in interest.

[revhigh]

Originally Posted by HuskerFocus

I agree with pretty much everything you say (except the center stack ... but that is really opinion based anyways,

Yeah ... true .... that's just one thing most reviews consistently complain about ... the busy centerstack.

Doesn't affect me since I don't have sync or mft, and glad about that too.

On a positive note ... my mileage is up to 34.8 calculated (35.9 indicated) in mixed highway and rural commuting. Great overall mileage for a good handling little $17K economy car.


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[suss6052]

Originally Posted by revhigh

It's very evident from reading the forum that people are getting more and more disillusioned with the new Focus. I still like mine, but I have to admit ... I've had more problems with this car in 5000 miles than I did with my last 3 Toyotas in 350,000 miles combined. None of my previous Toyotas EVER saw the shop ... my Focus has been in the shope 4 times now in 5000 miles, and it STILL has the front suspension issue. If they resolved that ... I'd be 100% happy with it, but I really don't think they even know what the problem is.


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If it is your opinion that there was nothing wrong with the Mazda 3 why didn't you buy one instead? We already know from ZX3Matt who's wife bought a new 3 instead of another Focus that the 12+ 3 is not immune from the suspension clunk having shared a common chassis development initially.

My car's suspension does not clunk, I have no issues with the DCT so far, and I don't care that the press seems to find the button layout too cluttered looking. It works really well in my opinion, and most of the time I can use the voice commands or the steering wheel controls to accomplish what I want to with minimal distraction.

If the Focus only offered a 5MT or a traditional automatic like the Fusion or the Escape's 6F35 I would not have gone with the automatic and I might not have gone with a Focus at all. I don't like the disconnected feeling of driving around in a car with a torque converter.

The skyactiv automatic transmission is having its own issues, maybe not quite as widely reported yet but there are fewer of them on the roads.

The only thing that is bothering me at the moment is the heated seats don't seem to get very hot but the dealer tried to claim that was normal of cloth seats. Then they either lied to me or to Ford, because they said it only reported 90-100F at the heater pad but they told ford they saw it hit the required 125F, which it did not.

If it was 125F at the pad and the pad is directly below the seat cover which is quite thin it would eventually reach the same temperature as the heater due to the nature of heat transfer. You can't just lose 30F worth of thermal energy someplace without it feeling warmer someplace.

But that's a relatively minor complaint about the car so far.

If I had waited however I might not be driving a Focus, or I might have had to spend far more for the ST to get what I wanted.

I wouldn't buy the 3 because of the interior, the styling, and the fact that even the six speed manual is geared more like the MTX-75 and would be less efficient than the DCT.

But like I said to each his or her own. I like my car, but I wouldn't like it if it had a torque converter.

Manual transmissions are usually far more reliable than automatics. The DCT being an automated manual is therfore technically more reliable by design although it doesn't have a long service history here yet. There have been no horror stories for the most part reported outside of North America, but the same powertrain is exported to the world, e.x. Austrailia/Russia/etc, and there have not been nearly the same level of expletives hurled at it as there have been by those people who were the most coddled by the torque converter and planetary gearsets. 50 years ago it made driving easier sure, but they were dreadfully inefficient and blunted performance massively. Now its less of a hit but having all that extra fluid moving around is not good for efficiency. The best automatics are only now nearing the efficiency of the traditional manual gearbox. Although they are also being geared even taller than usual as well which helps mileage but kills performance.

For the past 30 years of small FWD automatics from Ford pretty much all of the ones built in the Van Dyke assembly plant were pretty bad. AXOD/AXOD-E/AX4S/AX4N/4F50N et al from all the vintages of Taurus/etc have pretty much destroyed my opinion of torque converter automatics. The one in my old oldsomobile might have been ok, but it was far from exciting. The transmission in my first car a $225 dollar beat to junk Cadillac also had a pretty messed up transmission that failed to shift when you floored the accelerator until you let off.

It is my right to express my opinion, and its yours to disagree, but pozi240 clearly agreed with me on the plastic fantastic interior of the 3 as well as the fact that the noisier ride made it feel sportier without actually being better. After all if the suspension is essentially the same you're looking for subtle tweaks and per Car and Driver among others the Focus had the better balance in terms of ride comfort and handling. Its pretty much why in all of the comparison tests that they have done the Focus has come out on top of the 3, the Civic, and even the Dart. That last comparison was between manuals as well and the 5 speed focus still creamed the 6 speed dart.

[revhigh]

Originally Posted by suss6052

If it is your opinion that there was nothing wrong with the Mazda 3 why didn't you buy one instead?

Quite simply ... I liked the looks of the Focus better ... the equivalent 3 was $3500-4000 more (at the time), I wanted to buy American this time since I thought their reliability (at least Ford's) had improved to the point where they equalled or challenged the imports ( LOL ... I was wrong about that), and I had driven and liked the handling of the Focus several times since they were released.

Had I been more familiar with this forum ... I probably would have gone with the 3 even at the higher cost. There's a reason that Ford has to heavily incentivize these cars ... because at equal prices ... they don't stand a chance against the imports (if they could compete value-wise... then why incentivize them so heavily ?).

When I bought my Focus ... it was the 'Perfect Storm' of sticker discounts (almost $1000), dealer discounts (almost $1000), incentives ($2250), finance rates, trade-in values, and package configurations (Sport Pkg).

The Focus is a good little economy car ... but it's certainly not the panacea that some here try to make it out to be. I guess I'm just more realistic than most in my assessment, and after owning so many totally trouble free cars from Toyota .... this is a totally new experience for me having to constantly think about getting things 'fixed' time after time.


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[YesMAN]

A few random observations:

1) Motor Trend did put the Mazda3 in 1st and the Focus in a distant 5th in their June comparo. Calling the DCT "a technological stubbed toe, producing a brittle shift quality and occasionally incoherent judgments." "It's a shame to let the transmission distract from all [the car's strengths]."
2) TheTruthAboutCars.com '13 Fusion review said "Mazda’s new SKYACTIV automatic has been lauded for both its performance and fuel efficiency. The Ford [Fusion's auto] transmission isn’t nearly as good. In aggressive driving, shifts aren’t especially smooth or especially quick. A few times when I wanted the 2.0T to scoot after braking nearly to a stop the transmission hesitated, and for a moment that seemed much longer than a moment nothing happened. It’s far from awful, but it’s not nearly as good as the rest of the car."
3) We are now officially waaaaaayyy .

[revhigh]

Originally Posted by suss6052

I wouldn't buy the 3 because of the interior, the styling

We agree on the styling part ... at least if you mean the EXTERIOR styling. I absolutely can not stand that smiley face grill ... and it was a major factor in my passing up the 3.

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[josephd]

You should see the styling on my 07 SE. I thought SE stood for Sport Edition?? What is up with no tach, cheap steel wheels, and cheap plastic interior.
The shopping cart at Market Basket has more style than this car! :-D