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Old 09-13-2012, 11:18 PM   #71
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"And Boom goes the dynamite!"

Really? So let's look at it rationally. He says around 70% of 56 complaints seem to be DCT related. So roughly 39. There's been, what over 150,000 Focus sold in the USA up to July? Let's say around 70% are DCT, so around 112,500. So .034% cars have DCT issues to the point someone complains (and this is based on 2012 sales numbers I could find and the complaints figures could be from the start, so,this number could be high). I'd say that's a major issue? If someone could find the sales figure for the Velocitor the you could do a meaningful comparison. if the Focus is outselling it 10 to 1 then the chance of more people complaining is a lot higher.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:34 PM   #72
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Really? So let's look at it rationally. He says around 70% of 56 complaints seem to be DCT related. So roughly 39. There's been, what over 150,000 Focus sold in the USA up to July? Let's say around 70% are DCT, so around 112,500. So .034% cars have DCT issues to the point someone complains (and this is based on 2012 sales numbers I could find and the complaints figures could be from the start, so,this number could be high). I'd say that's a major issue? If someone could find the sales figure for the Velocitor the you could do a meaningful comparison. if the Focus is outselling it 10 to 1 then the chance of more people complaining is a lot higher.
I own a Veloster too, same "complaints/issues" leveled at the Focus are being leveled at the V. Go to Veloster.org if you can be bothered to read through it all.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:23 AM   #73
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Bad CSR service doesn't mean the product is bad.

If DCTs were actually this problematic, VW would've dropped them years ago and Ford would never have brought it over for us.

I never said DCT's were bad.I,like many here,like many car critics,said the Ford DCT was "half baked" and not really ready for the market.This was made worst by the fact the dealership didn't knew how to sell and maintain them.And also because Ford decided to put all his eggs in the same basket by limiting the sales of the manual transmissions.Not giving a real choice for buyers.

It's a series of bad decisions that gave the Ford DCT a bad name.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:37 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by DayGlow View Post
Really? So let's look at it rationally. He says around 70% of 56 complaints seem to be DCT related. So roughly 39. There's been, what over 150,000 Focus sold in the USA up to July? Let's say around 70% are DCT, so around 112,500. So .034% cars have DCT issues to the point someone complains (and this is based on 2012 sales numbers I could find and the complaints figures could be from the start, so,this number could be high). I'd say that's a major issue? If someone could find the sales figure for the Velocitor the you could do a meaningful comparison. if the Focus is outselling it 10 to 1 then the chance of more people complaining is a lot higher.
You got to keep in mind these are "registered complaints".And most of us here are not even in those numbers,because didn't file a complaint to the NHTSA.Again if there was so little of us who had issues,the word wouldn't have spread so fast.Car critics were complaining too.
As for the Veloster,Hyundai doesn't limit the sales of manual transmissions.So the number of complaints should be lower.
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:59 AM   #75
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You got to keep in mind these are "registered complaints".And most of us here are not even in those numbers,because didn't file a complaint to the NHTSA.Again if there was so little of us who had issues,the word wouldn't have spread so fast.Car critics were complaining too.
As for the Veloster,Hyundai doesn't limit the sales of manual transmissions.So the number of complaints should be lower.
And Ford is limiting the sales?....

Last I checked all models now have manuals....

And like I said, if the DCT was that bad it wouldn't have been put in the Focus, it's not Fords first car to get one...
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:00 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by DayGlow View Post
Really? So let's look at it rationally. He says around 70% of 56 complaints seem to be DCT related. So roughly 39. There's been, what over 150,000 Focus sold in the USA up to July? Let's say around 70% are DCT, so around 112,500. So .034% cars have DCT issues to the point someone complains (and this is based on 2012 sales numbers I could find and the complaints figures could be from the start, so,this number could be high). I'd say that's a major issue? If someone could find the sales figure for the Velocitor the you could do a meaningful comparison. if the Focus is outselling it 10 to 1 then the chance of more people complaining is a lot higher.
Actually I'd say that's a completely irrational way to look at it. Did you ever take a statistics class? The Focus has substantially more transmission complaints than the other cars. Since the population sizes are roughly the same for several of the cars (Cruze, Elantra, etc.) that indicates statistically that the Focus has significantly more problemmatic transmissions than its competition.

I had DCT problems but never reported it to NHTSA. I'm confident there are many many others like me.

And like I said I removed any complaints about hill roll back and the like which I don't think is a valid complaint. That left only complaints about jerking, shuddering, severe bogging down, etc. Issues that were apparently bad enough that the owner took the time to find out where to post a complaint and then actually type out the complaint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyThIc3LiTe View Post
Bad CSR service doesn't mean the product is bad.

If DCTs were actually this problematic, VW would've dropped them years ago and Ford would never have brought it over for us.
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Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
I think you hit the nail on the head. Most of the "problems" seem to be primarily related to bad/inadequate service.

That being said, I have no reason to believe that the DCT is inherently a bad design.
I completely agree, the DCT is not inherently flawed. I know that mine has performed perfectly in the past so I know it's possible. I think it's just that Ford is letting too many of them get too far off specs, probably mostly in terms of the software but clearly there are numerous hardware problems too. They need to keep perfecting it to make it bulletproof no matter what type of driver is driving it.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:13 AM   #77
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Actually I'd say that's a completely irrational way to look at it. Did you ever take a statistics class? The Focus has substantially more transmission complaints than the other cars. Since the population sizes are roughly the same for several of the cars (Cruze, Elantra, etc.) that indicates statistically that the Focus has significantly more problemmatic transmissions than its competition.

I had DCT problems but never reported it to NHTSA. I'm confident there are many many others like me.

And like I said I removed any complaints about hill roll back and the like which I don't think is a valid complaint. That left only complaints about jerking, shuddering, severe bogging down, etc. Issues that were apparently bad enough that the owner took the time to find out where to post a complaint and then actually type out the complaint.





I completely agree, the DCT is not inherently flawed. I know that mine has performed perfectly in the past so I know it's possible. I think it's just that Ford is letting too many of them get too far off specs, probably mostly in terms of the software but clearly there are numerous hardware problems too. They need to keep perfecting it to make it bulletproof no matter what type of driver is driving it.
It took VW years before the DSG was where it is today and by extension where Audis S Stronic is today.

As much as I'd love for our DCT to work like the one in my friends S4, it won't. Not right away.

Time will tell if Ford can refine it to a point where they can confidently stick It in almost everything they sell. But even VW isnt throwing their DSG into every single model under the sun.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:39 AM   #78
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It took VW years before the DSG was where it is today and by extension where Audis S Stronic is today.

As much as I'd love for our DCT to work like the one in my friends S4, it won't. Not right away.

Time will tell if Ford can refine it to a point where they can confidently stick It in almost everything they sell. But even VW isnt throwing their DSG into every single model under the sun.
Yep. I just hope the refinements are primarily software-related that can be easily retrofitted to our units.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:14 AM   #79
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And Ford is limiting the sales?....

Last I checked all models now have manuals....
Between what's on paper and the reality is two things.On paper, the manual is the standard transmission and a 1000$ cheaper,when you go to a dealership you get a different reality.I've bought 10 new cars in 23 years and it's the first time I seen salesman from 3 different dealerships pressuring me out of getting a manual transmission.From the start they tell you,Ford is not making many ,so it's a two months waiting period and then they show you a car with the same equipment you want with the DCT and are ready to sell it for the same price as the manual or even cheaper.I never seen this before.After my problems ,I went to see Mazda,Toyota and Hyundai.I asked for a maual transmission and they either had one in stock or were able to get one in 48 hrs.
Ford was pushing for the DCT and it showed.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:37 AM   #80
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Between what's on paper and the reality is two things.On paper, the manual is the standard transmission and a 1000$ cheaper,when you go to a dealership you get a different reality.I've bought 10 new cars in 23 years and it's the first time I seen salesman from 3 different dealerships pressuring me out of getting a manual transmission.From the start they tell you,Ford is not making many ,so it's a two months waiting period and then they show you a car with the same equipment you want with the DCT and are ready to sell it for the same price as the manual or even cheaper.I never seen this before.After my problems ,I went to see Mazda,Toyota and Hyundai.I asked for a maual transmission and they either had one in stock or were able to get one in 48 hrs.
Ford was pushing for the DCT and it showed.
I think it's just a matter of demand for the 5MT was much higher than Ford expected. This has been documented in the press. So naturally Ford will try to steer you away what they accidentally made too little of.
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