why no 6th gear?

[MyThIc3LiTe]

Originally Posted by Mazingo

I owned a 2012 Focus and two DCT transmissions.The first tranny was smooth, but even in sport mode it was far from performance made.When the dealership replaced it(God knows why),the second transmission was worst.It was shuttering often and in sport mode it would operate erratically by downshifting for nothing and falling into neutral while driving in the city.
So,do I think my driving skills with a manual transmission is better than the Powershift?After driving two identical transmissions operating totally differently.The Answer is YES.

Like I said previously,I now own a 2012 Elantra with a 6 speed manual.Even if the engine is smaller ,it's easier the exploit the performance through a manual transmission.

Ironic since the DCT is a manual...

That has no clutch you need to operate...

Which gives gear changes human hands can only dream of achieving...

[RonMaiden]

The only adavantage of the quicker gear shift of the DCT is in a straight line and the DCT is still not a joy to drive at slower speeds and on a road course I'll take the true manual over the DCT which is still an automatic in my eyes and still acts like one time to time. I've driven much more pricey cars with quick automatics or DCTs and the Focus' DCT doesn't compare.

The tiny toggle shifter is also a crappy design and they need proper a manu-stick or paddles to be fun to drive.

[MyThIc3LiTe]

Originally Posted by RonMaiden

The only adavantage of the quicker gear shift of the DCT is in a straight line and the DCT is still not a joy to drive at slower speeds and on a road course I'll take the true manual over the DCT which is still an automatic in my eyes and still acts like one time to time. I've driven much more pricey cars with quick automatics or DCTs and the Focus' DCT doesn't compare.

The tiny toggle shifter is also a crappy design and they need proper a manu-stick or paddles to be fun to drive.

Well, duh.

More expensive cars have DCTs engineered and geared for more power and gearboxes like Audi's S Tronic and BMWs DCT shift much faster and more aggressively.

That's kind of obvious...

The only thing a DCT is missing in our Focus is paddles to give you that sensation of better controlling your shifts, that nub is pathetic.

But DCTs in general are 2 manual gearboxes put together without the clutch pedal for you to push, everything else about them is grounded in how a manual works.

[Mazingo]

Originally Posted by MyThIc3LiTe

Which gives gear changes human hands can only dream of achieving...

Either I'm an extremely good driver or the Ford DCT is a really sh..y tranny.The Elantra doesn't have hill start assist ,but I'm able to release the clutch uphill without backing up an inch and stalling.Thing that the Focus was struggling with.While I probably don't shift as quickly as a powershift,I'm more than able to find the proper gear for performance and economy when I need it.If the transmission was performing perfectly as expected ,there wouldn't be several dozens of threads on this site alone of complaints about it.And this doesn't count all the other car forums,youtube,facebook and others sites.

And like it was mentionned before.The dealership are selling the cars as "automatic transmissions" and NOT automated manual transmissions.

[Justintoxicated]

I use sports mode as economy mode.... Granny shift, save on gas (course in 6th it doesn't help). I'm waiting to have problems with the DCT though, wish I had found this forums before making my purchase. But then again it may never happen, and all cars seem to have their problem areas.

I really wanted a manual with a 6 speed and taller gearing,. I liked the dodge dart (on the freeway it seemed to operate at lower RPM"s and used a much smaller engine (1.4 liter turbo charged). But I was a bit worried since it was so new, and a dodge, and they would not budge on the price yet.

I like MFT, I really don't understand all the complaints. I checked and I have the most updated version. Are most of the complains from the previous versions?

[Mazingo]

To clearly answer the question of the thread:"Why no 6th gear?" I think it's obvious that the answer was that Ford wanted to put all his eggs in one basket with the DCT.While the horror stories with the Fiesta with the same tranny should have been a big red flag.Ford went a head offering mostly the DCT instead of having more manual transmissions available ,or even a conventionnal automatic as a "plan B".Last year it didn't took long for sh.. to hit the fan.And when the bad reputation of the powershift spread and the demand for manual transmission grew, Ford was pretty much caught off guard even if all the red flags were there.

Did other manufacturers notices?Sure they did.When Mazda released the "Skyactive" powertrains,they still offered the old engine and transmissions to customers who didn,t trusted the new technology.Dodge,with the Dart ,offers a choice of 3 engines and three 6 speed transmissions(manual,Conventional auto and DCT).Got to admit that I wouldn't touch a Dodge with a 50ft pole and even less one with a DCT,but knowing you got a choice of two other transmissions and engines does make the car more attractive.

In 2014 or 2015 ,the Ford DCT should be more reliable and a 6 speed should be available,but will people who had bad and very bad experiences and those who were turned off by the lack of powertrain choices be back to give Ford another try?That ,only the future will know.

[suss6052]

Originally Posted by Mazingo

To clearly answer the question of the thread:"Why no 6th gear?" I think it's obvious that the answer was that Ford wanted to put all his eggs in one basket with the DCT.While the horror stories with the Fiesta with the same tranny should have been a big red flag.Ford went a head offering mostly the DCT instead of having more manual transmissions available ,or even a conventionnal automatic as a "plan B".Last year it didn't took long for sh.. to hit the fan.And when the bad reputation of the powershift spread and the demand for manual transmission grew, Ford was pretty much caught off guard even if all the red flags were there.

Did other manufacturers notices?Sure they did.When Mazda released the "Skyactive" powertrains,they still offered the old engine and transmissions to customers who didn,t trusted the new technology.Dodge,with the Dart ,offers a choice of 3 engines and three 6 speed transmissions(manual,Conventional auto and DCT).Got to admit that I wouldn't touch a Dodge with a 50ft pole and even less one with a DCT,but knowing you got a choice of two other transmissions and engines does make the car more attractive.

In 2014 or 2015 ,the Ford DCT should be more reliable and a 6 speed should be available,but will people who had bad and very bad experiences and those who were turned off by the lack of powertrain choices be back to give Ford another try?That ,only the future will know.

SkyActiv is still a traditional automatic transmission modified with a weaker torque converter and a larger lock up clutch. It also suffers from a shudder issue and can be even more ill-tempered than the DCT in the Focus as it combines the feeling of a lossy torque converter with a wet torque converter lock up clutch just as in a normal automatic, but one that's a lot more aggressive.

What problems with the DCT in the fiesta? As far as I know the only issues that cropped up were as a result of a ground bracket being painted when it shouldn't have been and improper contact being made.

The Dart uses a Hyundai engine and transmission as a base (The GEMA engine technically is assembled by chrysler now but it was primarily developed by Hyundai, and is mated to the torque converter automatic from the Elantra). The 1.4L Fiat engine uses essentially a similar if not identical DCT as its optional automatic, but its programmed to slush a lot more and therefore will likely have an even shorter service life than the transmission you love to trash.

[Mazingo]

Originally Posted by suss6052

SkyActiv is still a traditional automatic transmission modified with a weaker torque converter and a larger lock up clutch. It also suffers from a shudder issue and can be even more ill-tempered than the DCT in the Focus as it combines the feeling of a lossy torque converter with a wet torque converter lock up clutch just as in a normal automatic, but one that's a lot more aggressive.

What problems with the DCT in the fiesta? As far as I know the only issues that cropped up were as a result of a ground bracket being painted when it shouldn't have been and improper contact being made.

The Dart uses a Hyundai engine and transmission as a base (The GEMA engine technically is assembled by chrysler now but it was primarily developed by Hyundai, and is mated to the torque converter automatic from the Elantra). The 1.4L Fiat engine uses essentially a similar if not identical DCT as its optional automatic, but its programmed to slush a lot more and therefore will likely have an even shorter service life than the transmission you love to trash.

Not sure where to start.First the Focus I bought didn't had a transmission problem.The transmission was smooth.The dealership replaced it because THEY thought it was the source of a vibration at highway speeds.The "new" transmission had all the bells ,whistle,vibration and shuttering that most people of this forum complains about.From reading your comment ,I'm apparently the only one here who had transmissions issue.The only reason I could consider myself unique ,is because the problems started when Ford authaurised the dealership to replace it for nothing ,when my problem was simply bad wheel bearings!So,for a problem that should have been fixed in a few short hours and under 300$,Ford spent 5300$ and screwed with it for 5 months.
My last comment was NOT about the reliability or the working of Mazda's and Dodge's transmissions ,but about the choices they give customers.

Before jumping on me ,you should maybe some of the hundreds of horror stories on this forum.Most are worst than mine.I was lucky not to stall on a busy highway or intersection.Only a few times the car fell into neutral on Sport mode.If you don't like bad experiences ,you should stick with the "happy" theads.

[kam327]

Originally Posted by suss6052

What problems with the DCT in the fiesta? As far as I know the only issues that cropped up were as a result of a ground bracket being painted when it shouldn't have been and improper contact being made.

http://jalopnik.com/5774473/ford-qui...ner-complaints

[suss6052]

Originally Posted by Mazingo

Not sure where to start.First the Focus I bought didn't had a transmission problem.The transmission was smooth.The dealership replaced it because THEY thought it was the source of a vibration at highway speeds.The "new" transmission had all the bells ,whistle,vibration and shuttering that most people of this forum complains about.From reading your comment ,I'm apparently the only one here who had transmissions issue.The only reason I could consider myself unique ,is because the problems started when Ford authaurised the dealership to replace it for nothing ,when my problem was simply bad wheel bearings!So,for a problem that should have been fixed in a few short hours and under 300$,Ford spent 5300$ and screwed with it for 5 months.
My last comment was NOT about the reliability or the working of Mazda's and Dodge's transmissions ,but about the choices they give customers.

Before jumping on me ,you should maybe some of the hundreds of horror stories on this forum.Most are worst than mine.I was lucky not to stall on a busy highway or intersection.Only a few times they car into neutral on Sport mode.If you don't like bad experiences ,you should stick with the "happy" theads.

Your dealership was incompotent if they decided that faulty wheel bearing noises were coming from the gearbox.

The majority of real issues with the gearbox seem to be due to either a malfunction of the mechatronic unit that controls the shifting, or there may be an oil leak from a gearbox seal that is coating the clutches in oil.

Problems such as the car holding the higher gear are one I generally have not experienced, but that is inherent with all automatic transmissions trying to get better fuel economy. If anything mine is quite responsive. I may have the opposite problem which isn't really a problem at all, in that after coasting down the car always shifts down to the next lower gear at 1100 rpm or so and is therefore quite eager to hold the current gear and rev with any prod on the throttle (not wot, and not necessarily under light throttle).

Other issues such as not being prepared for a slight roll back on a hill because the driver either failed to put the brake down hard enough to engage the hill start assist, or they waited more than two or three seconds to apply the gas is generally an operator fault rather than one of the car.

I don't understand how people manage to almost stall the car in the middle of an intersection, but perhaps their cars were broken. However thats a small percentage of all the vehicles produced so far. Its also only in North America that there is this kind of complaints about the gearbox. Our Austrailan Friends with the 2.0 L GDI engine and the same transmission coming from mexico do not have these issues, nor do models in other markets, its only here in the U.S./CAN./MEX. where people are used to the torque converter and "wafting" away without a care in the world until it just abruptly fails from lack of maintanance.