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Old 09-04-2012, 04:59 PM   #61
DayGlow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
Yes. I really think Hyundai and Dodge have done it correctly. Put the DCT in more of a sporty fringe model (Veloster) or paired only with the "performance" engine (Dart). Ford should've done the same, maybe only including it with the SE Sport and Ti Handling packages or something. This simply is not a mass market transmission.



My coworker told me this morning he and his uncle rented a Focus at the airport. It was brand new, 6 miles on it. So they were probably only the 2nd driver ever of the car. He said it shuddered so badly out of the lot that they immediately returned it. The clerk took one look at them and said "transmission?" The clerk said this problem is rampant in their fleet and 4 out of 5 Focuses they rent out are returned for a transmission "problem."


In that context, it's hard to see how the Focus is selling so relatively well.
And in my business contacts I've dealt with the region manager for Enterprise Holdings (Enterprise, National and Alamo) for Southern Alberta and asked him about their Focus and Firsta fleet and the DCT. He responded that they have had no issues with the cars and were in the process of ordering their 13's. Now if they couldn't rent them out they wouldn't be making them money and he would know about it. And they wouldn't be ordering 13's to replace the 12's instead of going with a different brand/model.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:11 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by DayGlow View Post
And in my business contacts I've dealt with the region manager for Enterprise Holdings (Enterprise, National and Alamo) for Southern Alberta and asked him about their Focus and Firsta fleet and the DCT. He responded that they have had no issues with the cars and were in the process of ordering their 13's. Now if they couldn't rent them out they wouldn't be making them money and he would know about it. And they wouldn't be ordering 13's to replace the 12's instead of going with a different brand/model.
Thanks for the counterpoint. I'm sure it's not a widespread problem or we would have heard about it in the auto blogosphere by now. But I can see some bad cars creating negative perceptions at certain rental outlets.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:56 AM   #63
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I've never tried, but letting off the brake does the DCT creep forward? I know when the DCT came out for VW one of the complaints was that the 'auto' didn't creep. If Ford tried to make this transmission creep that could cause a lot of the low speed shuttering as its massaging the clutch to creep forward.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:14 AM   #64
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Thanks for the counterpoint. I'm sure it's not a widespread problem or we would have heard about it in the auto blogosphere by now. But I can see some bad cars creating negative perceptions at certain rental outlets.
It's because of the way they've been driven. The DCT has to be "programmed", because it's a learning transmission module. The more you drive it, the better it learns. If 10 different people all drove it within the first 2k miles the programming is probably all over the board. Good chance that's the reason the shuddering exists.


DayGlow: Yes it creeps. I didn't have this problem before the TSB, which is why there was no shuddering when letting off the break, but now it does so. It almost pulses in the way that it engages/disengages the clutch. Not very smooth, and probably the reason people think it's crap. It's just like holding the clutch at the friction point in a manual car and tapping the gas. It's borderline stalling the car but giving it enough gas to keep going.

It's annoying, and would be an easy fix, but there's not much we can do.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:15 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayGlow View Post
I've never tried, but letting off the brake does the DCT creep forward? I know when the DCT came out for VW one of the complaints was that the 'auto' didn't creep. If Ford tried to make this transmission creep that could cause a lot of the low speed shuttering as its massaging the clutch to creep forward.
Yes it does creep, mine always did even before 12B37.

If you haven't experienced the violent shudder or "jolt" that I and many others have reported, you can't understand how abnormal it is. Many are reporting a shudder / jolt miraculously went away after 12B37, others are reporting it unmiraculously appeared after 12B37. These people are presumably driving pretty much the same before and after 12B37, i.e. not all of a sudden employing tricks or massages to get the shudder to all of a sudden go away or appear.

My violent launch shudder appeared with about 500 miles on the clock and gradually disappeared after 5 hard launches at about 1500 miles. The changes had nothing to do with any updates since my first update was 12B37 with over 5,000 miles on the clock. The car drove noticeably worse after 12B37 but has gradually gotten back to the way it was.

And my shudder only happened after 20 minutes or so of suburban driving (i.e. after the tranny got hot). I didn't all of a sudden change my driving style 20 minutes into my commute. I have seen several others on here report this same thing.

All of this tells me this is a software (i.e. adaptive learning) issue or a hardware (clutch pack) issue. It is NOT a driving style issue in my opinion, as just about everyone who has been lucky enough to not have the shudder / jolting problem insists it must be.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:17 AM   #66
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I've never tried, but letting off the brake does the DCT creep forward? I know when the DCT came out for VW one of the complaints was that the 'auto' didn't creep. If Ford tried to make this transmission creep that could cause a lot of the low speed shuttering as its massaging the clutch to creep forward.
I get a nice steady creep of about 1-2 mph when I let off the brake from a stop. I do have the 12B37.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:19 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotleadsingerguy View Post
It's because of the way they've been driven. The DCT has to be "programmed", because it's a learning transmission module. The more you drive it, the better it learns. If 10 different people all drove it within the first 2k miles the programming is probably all over the board. Good chance that's the reason the shuddering exists.
Sorry based on my direct experience this is wrong. See my previous post. I'm pretty much the only person who drove my car beginning with about 30 miles on the clock. Drove perfect until about 500 miles when the shudder started. Nothing driver-related had changed to cause the shudder.

Also, I rented a Focus last summer, so it was a very early build, and I didn't notice anything wrong with the transmission. IIRC it had several thousand miles on it.

Again, IMHO this is a software/hardware flaw that for some reason affects a good number of cars but not the majority.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:28 AM   #68
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Well, I just came back from the Ford garage. The guy who looked at the car actually went for a ride with me. Of course it wasn't acting up like it had been previously (nothing ever seems to go wrong like it should when I take any of my vehicles into the dealer), but there were mild cases of what I was describing. The mechanic told me that I can expect the transmission to, at times, perform as I described (being jerky on some shifts, etc..), because it was not going to act like a normal automatic transmission.

I came home, pulled the battery and instantly noticed smoother shifting. As kam327 mentioned above, I do believe it IS a software/hardware flaw....and I can't help but think it's all in this "adaptive learning"....because the battery pull clears that out...and that's when my car starts shifting better....until the adaptive learning "learns" again.

I'm still not keeping this car past the 36,000 mile warranty.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:40 AM   #69
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The mechanic told me that I can expect the transmission to, at times, perform as I described (being jerky on some shifts, etc..), because it was not going to act like a normal automatic transmission.

I'm still not keeping this car past the 36,000 mile warranty.
Yeah I can accept some jerky shifts, but it's all relative, right? Depends on what one would label "jerky". I have the benefit of my car having run the gamut of good to bad tranny performance, so I know how well (and non-jerky) it can perform when all is right. So I think I can expect it to perform at the best that I've experienced it all the time.

Personally I won't go as far as to get rid of it at 36k. I'll wait until the tranny hardware warranty runs out which is 60k and then decide whether to get an extended warranty to continue coverage.
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Old 09-05-2012, 09:31 AM   #70
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My Build is 12/11. Not that the battery pull has anything to do with this as I noticed this before the battery pull but today I dropped my car off for Service because at about 40mph or just under that when the tranny is in 6th. The slightest incline or if you push the gas pedal down just a little to bring the RPM's up it sounds like Im dragging a metal trash can lid under the front of the car. You can hear it over the radio.
Also there is oil seeping from between the area where the Engine meets the Transmission. Its odd though that it still seems to be shifting and holding fine but not as good as the first day I pulled the battery. I suspect the adaptive learning is starting to sneak back in.

Really wish there was an Adaptive Learning FUSE we could pull!. :)

Anyhow, considering I feel I have the worse Build ever, my rear main seals are probably shot and I'll probably need new clutches at this point.

So Far I've had service for:

1. Highway drift TSB
2. Front suspension Clunk TSB
3. 11-10-2 PCM update
4. 12B37 Update
5. MFT update 3.02
6. Rear driver door sticking
7. Bluetooth Mic Excessive ROad noise
8. Touch Handle Door unlock intermittent
9. transmission Oil leak


Yeah I doubt I"ll be keeping the car past 36k either.
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